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Old 11-11-2019, 11:07 PM   #1
JimmyPlenty
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default 8d6 and high attribute characters

Is there any practical reason to even bother with an 8d6 check? You would need an ATT of 27-28 to even have a 50% chance to pass it.

Has anyone ever played with characters that high?
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:16 AM   #2
Chris Rice
 
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Default Re: 8d6 and high attribute characters

Highest rolls I've ever required anyone to make was 6d and the highest attribute ever attained was an 18.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:04 PM   #3
Shostak
 
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Default Re: 8d6 and high attribute characters

PCs aren't the only ones who might have to roll extra dice to do things.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:17 PM   #4
Anthony
 
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Default Re: 8d6 and high attribute characters

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyPlenty View Post
Is there any practical reason to even bother with an 8d6 check? You would need an ATT of 27-28 to even have a 50% chance to pass it.
What's wrong with checks in-game that people aren't expected to pass?
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:31 PM   #5
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: 8d6 and high attribute characters

I have played some games where there were a few characters with some very high attributes, but that's not the only reason for 8d or even higher rolls for some things.

Things to consider:

* Why would you want characters to have a 50% chance of something that's extremely difficult?

* One of the underlying principles of TFT is having a game that represents a situation in a way that it plays like the thing it is, so it's internally consistent and makes sense, which includes having worlds where some things may be very unlikely to happen, or almost impossible to do, but there is still some measurable chance.

* One very common example is rolls to notice something that's extremely subtle. In ITL, it mentions that essentially no trap should be absolutely impossible to detect, but some may be extremely difficult to detect. Imagine there's a gas bomb flask hidden under a floor tile that has been expertly replaced so that the hider could see nothing else to do to make it more hidden. Someone noticing it would need to notice something like a suspicious difference in the dust compared to other tiles, or an ant going into a crack between stones, or something. No matter how smart and observant someone is, it probably wouldn't be very common for anyone to notice that.

* Some talents and spells or situations etc may increase or reduce the number of dice required to do or notice some things.

* Some tasks just realistically should be nearly impossible to do and would require both incredible ability and good luck to pull off. Requiring many dice is a way to represent that in the game.

* For ST rolls, there are some very strong figures (e.g. giants, bears, dragons), some tasks have ways figures can combine their ST, and there's really no limit on how heavy something can be that someone might want to try to push over or something.

* It's not impossible to have a DX 18 or so archer with Missile Weapons +3, and a magic bow that increases their to-hit chances, and for them to aim for a couple of turns (see Waiting For an Opening), and/or to be shooting at a large target.

* The Aid spell exists.

* Wizards with IQ 20 seem to exist. Even ones at IQ 25 who could research an IQ 20 spell.
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:22 PM   #6
hcobb
 
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Default Re: 8d6 and high attribute characters

With a stat of a thousand you still have only a 45.95% of making an 8d roll due to automatic failure. c.f. three hex jump.
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Old 11-13-2019, 02:59 AM   #7
JimmyPlenty
 
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Default Re: 8d6 and high attribute characters

Thanks for the replies. Basically, I just see TFT as too deadly for anyone to get very high attribute wise. To get any stat to those levels...I mean...how many sessions do you have to play to get a person to that level (unless of course you started there).

I am generally always playing with 32 point charcters, so I guess my experience with much higher figures is clouded.
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Old 11-13-2019, 04:06 AM   #8
hcobb
 
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Default Re: 8d6 and high attribute characters

The actual "impossible to spot" traps in the adventures are 5/IQ rolls, i.e. an 84.1% chance by a typical 32 attribute point wizard with IQ 17 and Alertness.

If you run a party of four such wizards past 25 such traps then you're likely to get one of them.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:32 AM   #9
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: 8d6 and high attribute characters

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyPlenty View Post
Thanks for the replies. Basically, I just see TFT as too deadly for anyone to get very high attribute wise. To get any stat to those levels...I mean...how many sessions do you have to play to get a person to that level (unless of course you started there).

I am generally always playing with 32 point charcters, so I guess my experience with much higher figures is clouded.
The highest imaginable stat for a normal humanoid player character is 24, but you won't see this outside of a 'white room' thought exercise. In practice, 16-18 is about the highest value you will see for a PC stat. These statements don't really change when you imagine a character with massive amounts of XP because you are almost always better off investing those points in something other than raising a stat from very high to slightly more very high.

More generally, the deadliness of TFT is an outgrowth of the fact that it is built on top of a competitive board game, and competitive board games in which one side can't lose aren't any fun. This can be hard to adapt to if your reference point is post-1980 D+D. But it isn't so tricky: populate your adventures with lots of things that are tricky but not automatically lethal (swarms, slimes, 3d traps, rickety bridges, etc.) and think of all serious fights as 'boss fights' (I hate that phrase but everyone knows what it means).

Also, 8d saving throws aren't really something that arise in play. If they appear in an adventure they mean: your survival is a coin-flip, no matter who you are.
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:03 AM   #10
Anthony
 
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Default Re: 8d6 and high attribute characters

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
More generally, the deadliness of TFT is an outgrowth of the fact that it is built on top of a competitive board game, and competitive board games in which one side can't lose aren't any fun.
Eh, that just determines scenario balance. It's certainly possible to set up coinflip fights in D&D, it's just that the encounter design rules don't recommend doing so because it's hard to run an ongoing campaign when the entire party dies in the second combat.
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