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Old 04-08-2020, 10:30 PM   #1
kirbwarrior
 
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Default All sorts of Duplication questions

Construct 2 +160% is a house-ruled enhancement that you get all the benefits of Construct and no Construct (namely, there is no true you, with Dupe 2 either one could spend 10FP to get the other back). It basically has Cosmic +100% for breaking a rule. It hasn't seemed overpowered, but I don't know, what does the hivemind think?

I've always felt that Duplicated Gear was overpriced for only applying to Signature Gear, but I've also yet to use it. +100% equates to 35pts and I can't think of a time I'll have more than 35pts of sig gear (and usually 5 or less!) so it would just be cheaper to rebuy the SG than the enhancement. Does anyone have thoughts on its price? How much would it make sense to apply to all gear? Or even to everything carried (so it can dupe other people, even unwillingly)?

I love Payload (Cosmic: Dimensional Pocket +50%) a lot. But with Duplication it feels like any dupe could get an item from the payload. Would it be a fair feature that instead of each Dupe getting a payload, they share one pocket? I can't tell if the loss of extra room balances out the ability to 'warp' items indirectly.

From Fire Emblem I saw a very cool version of Duplication which effectively has 'Location Only' on it. Instead of fully creating a clone, you just are now defined to be in multiple locations at once (with the action economy of that many Dupes). Your dupes have one pool of HP, FP, etc. Equipment is shared among the dupes, but also moves around on them; If I fast draw a sword, all my dupes are wielding it, and if I get disarmed, all dupes lose the sword and it falls to the ground where it was disarmed. Would this be a fair feature of Duplication (the downsides of all dupes getting stunned, knocked out, mind controlled, etc at once seems plenty to balance out any upsides, but I could see it being more or even less expensive)?

To Duplicate at a range, adding Ranged seems to be the obvious solution. However, how would Affliction (Duplication w/ Ranged) work? Without modifiers would I just put the target's dupe somewhere within 100yds of the target?

On that note, Affliction (Duplication, Area Effect, Emanation) seems like a pretty cheap way to not only copy everything I'm carrying, but do the same for everyone near me (I should probably get Selective Area...). Is there any complications from that I'm not seeing aside from time limit (which Permanent and Cancellation deal with easily)? If I do use Cancellation on someone else, do I decide which dupes disappear?

With Affliction (Duplication w/Multiplication), I assume I spend the FP. With people the noncombat aspect makes sense, but how does that work with objects (which don't really 'enter combat')? How much would 'Multiplication Only' be worth (I'm assuming not -80%)?

Thanks for the help ahead of time, I know it's a lot.

EDIT: I knew I forgot one. Since all dupes get all traits, I'm assuming advantages bought as gadgets are copied without any need for enhancements, right? If I have an item that is supposed to be unique that can't be cloned even with supernatural powers, how much of a limitation would that be on the gadget?
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Last edited by kirbwarrior; 04-08-2020 at 10:57 PM. Reason: I knew I'd have more questions
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:52 AM   #2
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Default Re: All sorts of Duplication questions

The Payload with Cosmic seems reasonable, maybe +100% instead of +50% for the extra dimensional space.
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:33 PM   #3
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Default Re: All sorts of Duplication questions

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The Payload with Cosmic seems reasonable, maybe +100% instead of +50% for the extra dimensional space.
Are you saying it should be 100% for this effect, or 100% in general? I think I've seen it at 50% before, but I don't recall where.
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Old 04-09-2020, 01:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: All sorts of Duplication questions

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Are you saying it should be 100% for this effect, or 100% in general? I think I've seen it at 50% before, but I don't recall where.
Its +50% for a pocket dimension. Im saying an extra+50% for being able to draw from for each duplicate a that adds a lot of extra utility. Compare that to the +100% for duplicating Signature Gear.
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Old 04-09-2020, 02:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: All sorts of Duplication questions

A shared Payload is (to my way of thinking) tremendously more value than a Payload. Payload is just extra carrying capacity. Nice, but generally not game-changing. It's also dirt cheap, at 1 point/level (so the recommended 5 levels before GM permission is half BL for 5 points). Cosmic for a dimensional pocket is quite useful in most game contexts, as it renders the contents undetectable by most means. +50% of 5 points is still only 3 points.

But another 3 points to be able to share that Payload access among a group of people? Sign me up. Send in the thief to extract the entire bank vault, with the fighter just unloading the Payload as fast as the thief can shovel things in the other end. Add in a servant back at the castle to have access to everything you own (the whole wand collection, all your gold without risk, etc). No possibility of being unequipped ever again, as there's always someone back in town to do your shopping. Instant communication over any distance. Risk-free pickpocketing. Get Thanos' glove off momentarily, and it's separated from him for good. Put FedEx out of business with instant courier service. And it's just a few points extra.

The instant transfer between characters is far more valuable than the storage or weight capacity. That's probably better paid for by buying Warp with a couple of Limitations like "only items inside Payload" and "only to Dupes".
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Old 04-09-2020, 02:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: All sorts of Duplication questions

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Its +50% for a pocket dimension. Im saying an extra+50% for being able to draw from for each duplicate a that adds a lot of extra utility. Compare that to the +100% for duplicating Signature Gear.
Gotcha. Considering regular Payload 'increases' in size with Duplication, would it be a limitation on this if the Payload doesn't increase in size?
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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
A shared Payload is (to my way of thinking) tremendously more value than a Payload. Payload is just extra carrying capacity. Nice, but generally not game-changing. It's also dirt cheap, at 1 point/level (so the recommended 5 levels before GM permission is half BL for 5 points). Cosmic for a dimensional pocket is quite useful in most game contexts, as it renders the contents undetectable by most means. +50% of 5 points is still only 3 points.

But another 3 points to be able to share that Payload access among a group of people? Sign me up. Send in the thief to extract the entire bank vault, with the fighter just unloading the Payload as fast as the thief can shovel things in the other end. Add in a servant back at the castle to have access to everything you own (the whole wand collection, all your gold without risk, etc). No possibility of being unequipped ever again, as there's always someone back in town to do your shopping. Instant communication over any distance. Risk-free pickpocketing. Get Thanos' glove off momentarily, and it's separated from him for good. Put FedEx out of business with instant courier service. And it's just a few points extra.

The instant transfer between characters is far more valuable than the storage or weight capacity. That's probably better paid for by buying Warp with a couple of Limitations like "only items inside Payload" and "only to Dupes".
I could see that. Warp does have some oddities about it for this, but since I recently discovered that it only takes +50% to get rid of things like 'preparation' or 'distance', it's easy enough to fix. Maybe it could be base Warp with Exoteleport up to your Payload limit to 'warp' your payload to your dupe's?
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Old 04-09-2020, 03:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: All sorts of Duplication questions

Rather than Warp Id look at Snatcher first.
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Old 04-09-2020, 03:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: All sorts of Duplication questions

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Rather than Warp Id look at Snatcher first.
Snatcher does seems weirdly expensive to simulate this; Reduced Time 5, No Roll Required, Reduced Cost 2, More Weight (with larger Payloads), Recall, Accessibility: Only things in payload, and that's assuming that putting something into your payload is enough to satisfy Recall.

EDIT: If Duplication is already taking Duplicated Items/Can Carry Objects (or both, whatever is needed), it could let me duplicate items into the Payload for my other dupes to pull out, in a similar fashion as being able to dupe items when duplicating.
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Last edited by kirbwarrior; 04-09-2020 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 04-09-2020, 05:54 PM   #9
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Default Re: All sorts of Duplication questions

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Rather than Warp Id look at Snatcher first.
Snatcher seems to be written with the notion that it creates stuff, with a bit of fluff about snatching the objects from parallel alternate dimensions. It's Create Object, in other words -- which in this case means it doesn't naturally destroy the object that's already in the payload. (The text even specifically says that the object must come from a different world, not your own, and thus you can't take any specific object away from a specific person -- like your Dupe.)

On the bright side, that's worth a Limitation, since it's less good for the Dupes to be able to have just one object Snatched back and forth than each to have one, all Snatched from another dimension. And the concept doesn't include taking distant objects out of enemy hands anyway.

If a Dupe hops into the shared pocket dimension to rejoin his buddies, Warp handles it naturally. But it makes my head hurt to think about what happens if you Snatch a Dupe of an alternate version of your character from a different universe and then merge it back into the main body. Is a parallel copy of your Dupe still your Dupe? What if he has a goatee, or is black on the left side instead of the right?

(In a comic book, no doubt the character powers up as he discovers that all the alternate parallel versions of himself have a joint Dupe pool across continuities so he gets the powers of all versions of himself as he merges the multidimensional pool back into OmniDupe.)
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Old 04-13-2020, 02:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: All sorts of Duplication questions

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
...Warp does have some oddities about it for this, but since I recently discovered that it only takes +50% to get rid of things like 'preparation' or 'distance'...
Where did you see this?!?
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