Traveller (T5) fifth edition Kickstarter

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

I think this penny arcade comic sums up this Kickstarter perfectly really: http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/05/04

As it happens I pretty much agree with everything you've said about T5 and the "thing creator", or whatever it's going to be called.

However, I think you've made your point in this thread. What I don't understand is why you continue to post in this thread about a game that you obviously hate and give grief to people who obviously disagree with you.

You've made your point, but people are entitled to have an opinion that is different than yours.

[Malenfant]

Originally Posted by Sarge

However, I think you've made your point in this thread. What I don't understand is why you continue to post in this thread about a game that you obviously hate and give grief to people who obviously disagree with you.

You've made your point, but people are entitled to have an opinion that is different than yours.

Same goes both ways though. Some people here seem to think I don't have a right to voice my own opinion about it, or to provide a counterpoint to some of the (less rational) justifications that people come up with to support T5 (e.g. the "it'll reinvigorate Traveller" line, when Traveller clearly doesn't need invigorating at all). And like I said, if people don't want to read my opinions then they can of course just not read them (and frankly, I'd rather they didn't respond to them if they don't like them so much. Makes life a lot easier for everyone).

Obviously, if people feel they "need" to support T5 then they'll do it regardless of what I or anyone else says (and indeed, that's exactly what they did). But I'll note that I haven't seen a single post from anyone on this subject on any board saying how great T5 is, but I have seen an awful lot of posts (not just from me) that largely range from "meh" or "it's not actually very good". Maybe those positive posts are out there, but they don't seem to be very significant.

There are a lot of posts from people that want to "support Traveller", or "pay Marc back for years of gaming" (whatever that means), with little or no concern as to what the actual product they're paying for is. Critical thinking about the actual product itself doesn't really seem to have been a big part of the support for this project, which implies to me that T5 could have been anything with Marc's name on it, and it would have been just as wildly successful in its funding. Either way, the pledges have been taken so I guess the people who paid hundreds of dollars for a book and a few other trinkets will have to hope it's all worthwhile when they finally get it.

But as I said elsewhere, with $295,000 of funding available I would expect T5 to be a perfect RPG product, presented in full colour with professional editing, layout, and artwork and no errors or inconsistencies because it will be able to have a very through playtest. That money can and should go into improving the product far beyond its original design.

Whatever though, it's over now. I guess we'll just have to see what (if anything) surfaces in December 2012. Personally I expect it to be delayed, given that it's taken so long to get to this stage and it still apparently isn't close to being ready. Though perhaps a hard deadline and a solid obligation to its backers might encourage the developers to stop fiddling with the system and get it finished on time.

(as an aside, I wonder what would happen if Loren made a fundraising kickstarter to support his heart surgery costs...)

[Jeffr0]

I am cautiously optimistic. Some of it is over the top, but being Traveller it only has to be good in parts. I am curious as to how he addresses some of the longstnding design issues and also whether he can significantly improve on any of it.

$51 would have been enough to get a good look, but it is fun to have a real book with endleaves and all....

And it goes without saying that complaining about Traveller is a game to itself....

[DocGrognard]

Originally Posted by Jeffr0

I am cautiously optimistic. Some of it is over the top, but being Traveller it only has to be good in parts. I am curious as to how he addresses some of the longstnding design issues and also whether he can significantly improve on any of it.

$51 would have been enough to get a good look, but it is fun to have a real book with endleaves and all....

And it goes without saying that complaining about Traveller is a game to itself....

And yes, as you see, fun is the only real reason for this hobby. Well done, and I hope we both enjoy it. Or, or in addition, having a good complain about page 472 of the terrainmaker, and how it's use of seeded plowlands as a proxy for high desert scrublands is just the worst thing ever. :D

Roleplaying: a game to some, a nightmare to others.....

[DocGrognard]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

(as an aside, I wonder what would happen if Loren made a fundraising kickstarter to support his heart surgery costs...)

well, I've repeatedly sent him cash via paypal to help out on his pharma costs. Feel free to chip in ; if that is, you see it as anything other than a conveniently emotive talking point in your campaign.

[ImperialOne]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

Same goes both ways though. Some people here seem to think I don't have a right to voice my own opinion about it, or to provide a counterpoint to some of the (less rational) justifications that people come up with to support T5 (e.g. the "it'll reinvigorate Traveller" line, when Traveller clearly doesn't need invigorating at all).


(as an aside, I wonder what would happen if Loren made a fundraising kickstarter to support his heart surgery costs...)

Well, as for my own opinion, Traveller does need reinvigorement (a GW Bush-ism at best)... Mongoose Traveller does nothing for me nor did any of those D20/OGL-atrocities.

That last aside, while entitle to your opinion, seemed a little tacky to me. Should we conclude you are a supporter of HealthCare reform on the basis of tahtat statement alone? But, I digress... and will say no more about this dead horse of a thread.

[Malenfant]

Originally Posted by DocGrognard

well, I've repeatedly sent him cash via paypal to help out on his pharma costs. Feel free to chip in

I already did, when his health issues first arose.

[rust]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

But as I said elsewhere, with $295,000 of funding available I would expect T5 to be a perfect RPG product ...

Looking at this sentence from the Kickstarter page ...

When we reach $250,000, we will be able to add a Knighthood every Book.

... I think that you expect too much, those 2,000 pure-
ly fictional knighthoods seem to be surprisingly expensive.

[Malenfant]

Originally Posted by ImperialOne

That last aside, while entitle to your opinion, seemed a little tacky to me. Should we conclude you are a supporter of HealthCare reform on the basis of tahtat statement alone? But, I digress... and will say no more about this dead horse of a thread.

I don't see what politics has to do with this at all.

Kickstarter and other crowdfunding sites are a way to raise funds. Supporting a (popular?) figure in the RPG community who is out of pocket due to huge medical bills seems like an appropriate use for that, don't you think? If an old lady who gets insulted by kids on a bus can have hundreds of thousands of dollars raised for her through such means, it doesn't seem like a huge stretch of logic to suggest that Loren could recoup his expenses that way too. "Goodwill" seems to have paid for T5 ten times over after all.

But I guess this is a tangent that should be on Loren's "recovering from heart attack" thread.

[DocGrognard]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

I already did, when his health issues first arose.

Originally Posted by Malenfant

Kickstarter and other crowdfunding sites are a way to raise funds. Supporting a (popular?) figure in the RPG community who is out of pocket due to huge medical bills seems like an appropriate use for that, don't you think? If an old lady who gets insulted by kids on a bus can have hundreds of thousands of dollars raised for her through such means, it doesn't seem like a huge stretch of logic to suggest that Loren could recoup his expenses that way too. "Goodwill" seems to have paid for T5 ten times over after all.

But I guess this is a tangent that should be on Loren's "recovering from heart attack" thread.

Well, hey, glad to see you kicked in to Loren, too. And since you are so concerned with t5 not helping those in need, maybe you could start a kickstart to just that effect ? See, he has constant pharma to pay for (diabetes and all, in addition), so he needs it as much now as he did then.

Even better: how bout you send loren a donation of, say five or ten dollars for each post you make about T5 on this thread ? Do that, and I'll match it. Totally serious, here. Plus, it'll allow you to vote with your wallet, and not just on Steve Jackson's dime. And hell, it would show that even people who disagree think he's a great guy.

Or if that's too much, how 'bout you just sent loren a gift equal to one of the pledge levels for T5 that you didn't make ? I like that so much I'm going to do it right now. (of course, I'll base it on the pledge I did make, but I'm sure you understand; if all you can swing is one of the minor ones, let me know and I'll match it so you'll know that some good comes of T5...).

Edit: Done ! Anyone else ?

This is great ! I'm sure you'll jump at the chance to convert all this negative energy into something worthwhile ! Or just to actually address the issue and right the wrong that you've brought up ? Just let me know if you go the donation per post route.