Military Cybershells - just how ubiquitous are they?

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I built a SM-1 combat cybershell in Vehicles; it didn't have the endurance of the RATS in THS, but it's grossly better in high intensity combat. Realistically, assume that the SM of a RATS is determined by its ST -- decide how strong it should be possible to make a SM+0 RATS, and then scale normally. .

Realistically, armor thickness is strongly dependent on size, which is why bigger armored units have an advantage. Until you hit a point where ground pressure is a problem - which won't be a major issue at armor levels most RATS have.

So if you want to keep the total percentage of mass (and volume, for what it's worth) devoted to armor steady, then each +1 SM approximately increases effective DR by about 1.5. If not, then your teeny little RATS will either have to be mostly armor with little room for other systems, or they'll end up with rather inferior DR.

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter

I have skimmed the rulebook. That might be where I got the idea, or it might just be an extension of the mutable point totals stuff in (is it?) Changing Times. I don't remember.

The mutable point totals and "treat them as equipment" are certainly options presented in THS. Heck, even the core book (TS, p. 114) says the GM is free to just increase a PCs point total when they upgrade their body ("your 150-point human uploaded into 1,800 point warbot? Fine. You're now a 1950 point character.")

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

Realistically, armor thickness is strongly dependent on size, which is why bigger armored units have an advantage.

Urr, no. Armor thickness is strongly dependent on size in a negative way -- it's just also strongly dependent on weight, and bigger armored units can carry more. What you want is the smallest vehicle that is capable of carrying everything else you want to have.

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

So if you want to keep the total percentage of mass (and volume, for what it's worth) devoted to armor steady, then each +1 SM approximately increases effective DR by about 1.5.

Sure, but DR 60 on a SM -1 RATS is not challenging that limit. Armored vehicles are mostly armor.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Urr, no. Armor thickness is strongly dependent on size in a negative way -

You can't have a foot of armor on something that's shorter than a foot in it's largest dimension.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

You can't have a foot of armor on something that's shorter than a foot in it's largest dimension.

It's extremely rare for volume to be the limiting factor on armor. Not unheard of, it can be a problem for wooden vehicles, but a mere DR 60 isn't going to be a challenge. Using DR values from Spaceships (which are generally somewhat more conservative than 3e Vehicles), diamondoid has about 7x the DR per unit weight of steel, steel is DR 70/inch, and diamond has about 45% the density of steel, so diamondoid should be about DR 220 per inch (and DR 1 is about 0.016g/cm^2). I doubt a quarter inch is going to seriously cripple a SM -1 bot.

Incidentally, the sealed combat armor statistics are somewhat better armor than spacecraft, the TL 10 hardsuit has about the weight you'd expect from TL 11 diamondoid, though this is probably believable enough.

[gjc8]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

Until you hit a point where ground pressure is a problem - which won't be a major issue at armor levels most RATS have.

It is if (for example) you want them to be able to operate inside buildings.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's extremely rare for volume to be the limiting factor on armor. Not unheard of, it can be a problem for wooden vehicles, but a mere DR 60 isn't going to be a challenge.

Why DR 60? David suggested DR 400+ for Heavy Infantry RATS.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Why DR 60?

Because that's the DR on the RATS in THS core. You're probably not putting DR 400 on a SM -1 RATS, but you probably aren't putting that much DR on a RATS at all, because you'll be too heavy for buildings. My SM -1 RATS was 300 pounds, a SM 0 equivalent would be about a thousand pounds.