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Old 08-02-2019, 01:52 PM   #11
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: [Powers] Putting multiple abilities into an Alternative Ability slot

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
I actually run (as a house rule, I suppose) a variant that rejects the idea of slots all together:

Purchase
A [20]
B [15/5 =3]
C [10/5=2]
D [10/5=2]
E [5/5=1]
F [5/5=1]
G [5/5=1]
H [5/5=1]

I then allow as an ready action the player to switch between any combination of abilities adding up to [20]. B and G, B and H, B and E are all valid, as is C and D or C,E, and H.

Its "permissive", yes, but I find that it is less of a headache than tracking slots and mimics the repertoire of a "power" better than using slots.
RAW is to pay for the most expensive n abilities, then be able to access only n abilities at a time. Personally, I feel the approach you mention here to be far more fair, so it’s the approach I certainly prefer. Honestly, I’m inclined to take it further, allowing leveled traits that are part of it to switch up how many levels they have active at a time (in your example, if ability A were DR 4, the character could opt to combine DR 1 with [15] worth of other traits from the set, DR 2 with [10], DR 3 with [5], or have DR 4 alone).
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:35 PM   #12
WhiteFox1618
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sackville NB, Canada, Previously Inuvik NWT
Default Re: [Powers] Putting multiple abilities into an Alternative Ability slot

There's the option of taking multiple alternate ability slots... pay full cost for the two most expensive abilities, and the PC can access any two abilities in the set (I have a cyberpsi mecha pilot in an "anime-like" campaign, with; digital mind reading, digital mind probe, and vehicular possession from pyramid3_30), as alternate abilities. I plan on taking a second alternate ability slot once I accumulate the points to do so.

An alternative to alternate abilities, taken from biotech (ostensibly for switchable body parts), is using Temporary Disadvantage, doesn't have "other advantage," (plus switchable, for any "always on" abilities).
So, you might have:
Jumper (Temporary disadvantage, Can't use TK bullet, Can't use TK Grab)
TK Bullet (Temporary disadvantage, Can't use Jumper)
TK Grab (Temporary disadvantage, Can't use Jumper)
The temporary disadvantage values being based on the point value of the advantage disabled.. eg, with [15] in TK bullet, "can't use TK bullet" would be worth -12%
This setup allows the psi to use TK bullet and TK Grab at the same time, but not jumper, and jumper doesn't allow either Grab or Bullet. It's a bit kludgy in the numbers, but in play it's intuitive enough.
Bearing in mind all the terms+conditions for temporary disadvantages.
Passive "always-on" abilities, such as PK shield, would need switchable, otherwise the temporary disadvantage would always be in effect.

This kind of setup doesn't always give as much of a point break as Alternative Abilities, (since Temp Dis is included in the -80% cap for limitations, while AA's are compounded with limitations), but it does give a discount to the most expensive ability, unlike AA's. It also allows more fine tuning (which can get really fiddly, but sometimes a player wants to fiddle, in moderation).
For example, TK Grab and Bullet might disable only a few levels of the other, so the PC could use both Grab and Bullet at the same time, but only at half strength, or use one of the two at full strength.

Christopher: That's really good to know... I have a dragon esper PC with AA's who may have to make use of that, (not that he really needs to, at 1100+ CP, but still. Every little bite helps. (If I can sell the GM on it, at least).

Edit: Varyon sniped me on the multi-AA's, dangit. I take too long to edit my posts. X3
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:55 PM   #13
Refplace
 
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Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: [Powers] Putting multiple abilities into an Alternative Ability slot

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Originally Posted by RogerBW View Post
I think possibly there's some confusion in what's being proposed.

It's not:

AA#1 (power A) or (power B) or (power C)
plus
AA#2 (power D) or (power E) or (power F)

as Christopher described. Rather, it's

AA (power A) or (power B) or (power C + power D)

where C and D are distinct abilities, collectively of lower cost than A, which may but need not be used at the same time. Using either or both of them would lock out A and B until the use of C and/or D stops.

On reflection I see why I found it aesthetically unappealing - modulo rounding errors, it costs the same as having each power in a separate slot, but it's better.
I dont see the rounding errors.
I do it this way.
AA (power A) or (power B/5) or (power C/5 + power D/5)
Same as if separate
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Old 08-02-2019, 03:58 PM   #14
johndallman
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Default Re: [Powers] Putting multiple abilities into an Alternative Ability slot

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerBW View Post
as Christopher described. Rather, it's

AA (power A) or (power B) or (power C + power D)

where C and D are distinct abilities, collectively of lower cost than A, which may but need not be used at the same time. Using either or both of them would lock out A and B until the use of C and/or D stops.

On reflection I see why I found it aesthetically unappealing - modulo rounding errors, it costs the same as having each power in a separate slot, but it's better.
Yup, that's a problem. How about, using cX as the cost of C, doing it this way:

Power A [cA]
Power B [cB/5]
Power C [cC/5]
Power D and Power E [(cD+cE)/4]
Powers F, G and H [(cF+cG+cH/3]

The idea is that one reduces the divisor by 1 for each distinct ability above 1 in a slot.
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:04 PM   #15
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: [Powers] Putting multiple abilities into an Alternative Ability slot

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFox1618 View Post
Edit: Varyon sniped me on the multi-AA's, dangit. I take too long to edit my posts. X3
Technically, Dragondog beat us both to it all the way back in post #2, although that looks to have been assumed to be a houserule. It isn't - GURPS Power Ups 8: Limitations, page 8, has the official rule. I just think the approach ericthered suggested is much more fair.

Granted, that discourages having separate sets of Alternate Abilities, even if doing so would match your character concept rather well. It might be appropriate to give a small discount for those who have separate AA sets. Say, -10% on the second most expensive set, -20% on the third most expensive, etc. Having a Winged Flight / Striker AA set separate from a Innate Attack / Force Field DR AA set is less useful than having all four as part of a single permissive AA set - in the former case, you don't have the option of forgoing both Winged Flight and a Striker to be able to make use of both (full-powered) Innate Attack and Force Field DR. Yet, for a character who has wings that are strong enough to use as weapons (but doing so would interfere with flight), and also has an integral hand cannon and forcefield that draw from the same energy source (so you can sacrifice one to boost the other), the former build makes a lot more sense.
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Old 08-03-2019, 05:24 AM   #16
Balor Patch
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Default Re: [Powers] Putting multiple abilities into an Alternative Ability slot

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
Do note (which is probably obvious) you can't have nested AAs.
Unless your DF14 Mentalist knows Mind Stab.
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Old 08-03-2019, 05:30 AM   #17
CeeDub
 
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Default Re: [Powers] Putting multiple abilities into an Alternative Ability slot

This thread seems relevant:

Alternate Ability groups
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Old 08-03-2019, 02:12 PM   #18
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: [Powers] Putting multiple abilities into an Alternative Ability slot

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Originally Posted by Balor Patch View Post
Unless your DF14 Mentalist knows Mind Stab.
I'm confidant that that is not what that means. Just because it's automatically an alternative ability doesn't mean you can make the whole thing an AA.
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