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01-13-2011, 11:07 PM | #31 | |
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
My own objection to GURPS Lite is that it isn't low-res, just incomplete. For example, GURPS Ultra-Lite is very low-res, but complete. It's a simpler game. GURPS Lite, OTOH, is a slice of full GURPS. Hm, Frosty, have you looked at GURPS Ultra-Lite?
Of course, I want a system that generally lets me tune the res to the campaign. GURPS isn't that system; for the most part, it doesn't change res, instead it changes completeness. So Lite actually works as a better demo the way it is, that's just not a good thing :J If, for example, you had a system that implemented tunable res with "redundant" rules modules of varying length/res/etc, then you could list only the lowest-res rules modules and have a complete, Lite-sized game. The result would play more like Risus(which is about Lite-sized, but complete, because it's always low-res). One way to naively interpret an ROF stat would be multiple attack rolls per action. That's unwieldy when rolling actual dice, but effective. Quote:
For a Lite magic, I think Hawthorne magic(the system in G: Magic) is entirely the wrong way to go. It's specifically oriented toward vast rules word-counts. Maybe stripped down and "canned" builds of Control and Create from Powers?
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If you must feed the troll, take it to PMs. "If it can't be turned off, it's not a feature." - Heuer's Razor Waiting For: Vehicle Design System
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01-14-2011, 05:18 AM | #32 | ||
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Torino, Italy
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
Well, actually that's kind of the point - GURPS books are meant to be bought, since GURPS is a commercial book and the authors write them hoping to earn some money.
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Let me explain that GURPS Lite is not a free, standalone game, it's just the "demo" for GURPS, an introductory tool for new players. But I think you already know that... actually, I am starting to think you came here on bad faith. Either that, or you have really weird ideas about RPGs, and commercial books/games in general.
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01-14-2011, 05:22 AM | #33 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Torino, Italy
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
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Actually I think that both games are not particularly good a "simple, standalone games". After all, why they should be? This is hardly the main concern of GURPS. And I doubt that it is really possible to build a game which works very well on many different "resolutions". Simple games make assumptions and design choices which are fundamentally different from those of "complex" games. There are plenty of simple (and very simple) games around, many of them are free, too, and I think they work better than GURPS Ultra-Lite or Lite for this purpose. (They better do, since it's the only thing they can do!) E.g., if I want to play a game simpler than chess, I will play checkers... I won't play chess with just 4 pieces. And if I want to play a simple RPG for a quick evening of play, I'd probably choose Risus, or the basic rules of Fudge, rather than GURPS Lite.
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01-14-2011, 06:22 AM | #34 |
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Hall of Fallen Columns
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
Serious question here: In a situation like this, when somebody is looking for the stats of something contained either in the Basic Set, or in the splatbooks, what are other posters allowed to tell them and what are we not allowed to tell them?
I've seen a decent number of threads that provide signposts for further reference ("Check out page XX in High Tech for SMG stats"). I think I've also seen a thread here and there which simply said the stat ("Here is the stat for one SMG..."). If it's for one single thing (as opposed to, say, requesting an entire table of data), is it okay with SJGames if we share limited amounts of stats and info from the splatbooks? Or should we limit ourselves to just saying "go and refer to this splatbook"? |
01-14-2011, 07:59 AM | #35 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The former Chochenyo territory
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
I am very disappointed that the free rules do not include rules for explosions and stats for horses. Otherwise, why are the Demolitions and Riding skills there? I hoped to run "Rambo Rides Again", but GURPS Lite has FAILED me.
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My gaming blog: Thor's Grumblings Keep your friends close, and your enemies in Close Combat. |
01-14-2011, 08:13 AM | #36 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Torino, Italy
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
The copyright issues about quotation, "fair use" and so on, are like quantum physics: so complicated that nobody can actually understand them, even if they say they do, they're just pretending, to save face :)
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01-14-2011, 08:25 AM | #37 | |||||||||
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: .
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
Really? My impression of GURPS Lite Fourth Editon was that it was more generic than GURPS Lite Third Edition. But, then again, I've spent more time with 4e Lite and only eyeball 3e Lite on occasion.
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To this day, it still makes me think, "What the ####…" Quote:
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My issue isn't that I have to pay to get the real deal, my issue is that I have parts of the real deal and parts of the simplified deal. Unfortunately, you need all of either deal just to run an adventure. Quote:
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I remember agreeing with sir_pudding on that. As a reference for players, GURPS Lite Fourth Edition is alright. As a reference for a GM, it's a nightmare. Quote:
I'm not expecting everything for free, all I expect is a functional system demo of the real deal. Something that can stand up on its own two legs without being supported of third-party resources and overshadowed by its bigger brothers. OK. Quote:
EDIT: More coming later. Last edited by Frosty; 01-14-2011 at 08:31 AM. |
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01-14-2011, 08:26 AM | #38 | |
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Curitiba - PR (Brazil)
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
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Sorry if you were not kidding, but I found it hilarious! Only to give a "up" for the little: SJGames cared to put little in a lot of diferent languages. Thanks for it my brazilian friends (some of then dont understand a single word of english) could be introduced to GURPS.
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Link for my DF Campaign Game: http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/panorica |
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01-14-2011, 08:34 AM | #39 |
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Curitiba - PR (Brazil)
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
IMO GURPS Little is a help ONLY to introduce NEW players. The GM MUST have the TWO Basic Sets. I never saw any other RPG that give you ANY little piece of rule for free (but I actualy did not played more than 6 RPGs). So I think that Little is great in this matter.
My suggestion is: if you want to GM a game, buy the books and tell to your players to know/read the little rules section on GURPS Little and make the PCs togheter to your players using your full book. I GM GURPS 4th for the same group for almost 5 years now and until today, when we will begin a new campaing I make the PCs and present then to my players choise who will play what. Normaly I have 4 players and present 8 PCs. Wy I do this? First because I want that all characters are 100% compatible in my setting, in the story and beteween each other. Second because my players hate to read english and dont and to know the rules in detail.
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01-14-2011, 08:38 AM | #40 |
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: France
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Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?
Well, whining about free stuff is inappropriate in my book, but raising the concern of what is GURPS Lite for is interesting.
I personnaly never heard of someone running a game with GURPS Lite. What I find GURPS Lite useful for is: 1. As a GM comming from other systems, evaluating what the full GURPS will feel like before buying the whole stuff. I mean, there are reviews over the net that grossly explain how you roll the dice, but actually having a sample of the rules explaining how you build a character, how you test a skill and how you apply damage is far better to make an educated opinion. As for the fact that there is a SMG skill and no SMG gear stats, well, it just says that Gun is a subclassed skill and that there is provision for SMGs. So don't worry, if you actually buy books, there will be SMGs and rules to use them. 2. As a GURPS GM having the full system, when short in time to make PCs or assist players, I would ask them to try to build their character concept with Lite. Let's say it's wednesday and a gaming session is planned for friday night. I receive an email from player A telling me that a friend of his would like to join the game. I don't mind, but I have no character left and no time to build one until friday. I can tell player A, who is reasonably familiar with GURPS mechanics, to go with Lite and make a basic character up to 100 character points with/for his friend, leaving the blanks that need being filled with the full GURPS books. It's still a time saver if 75 points has been spent. We can just adjust and spend the remaining 25 points before the session. |
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edition, fourth, gurps, lite, table |
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