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Old 03-08-2020, 09:21 AM   #61
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: [UT] Integrated retractable bayonet

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
As for the damage, it should be APDS, not APEP, slight mistake, but it would deal pi+ damage.
No it wouldn't. You have to be 25mm or larger to not take te ding to P-class.

Who's using armor-piercing ammo agaisnt naked werewolves anyway?
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Old 03-08-2020, 10:25 AM   #62
a humble lich
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Default Re: [UT] Integrated retractable bayonet

Once you start allowing for vampires, werewolves, etc, then a lot of the calculations of what is effective is now going to depend on the details of the vampire, werewolf, etc templates. If a werewolf only has Weakness (silver--1d/minute), then a bayonet probably isn't worth it. But if that werewolf instead has Unkillable (Achilles Heal: Silver), then a silver bayonet looks much more interesting. If I were putting together an UT monster hunter game, I would make sure that some threats are resistant to bullets so as to make melee fighters more interesting: Injury Tolerance (piercing), Missile Shield, Ballistic Armor, Instant Regeneration (not against their weakness), etc.

One use for a retractable bayonet even in a fairly realistic setting could be for forces that expect to be fighting in spacecraft. If spacecraft are fairly fragile, you might not want a bunch of APDS rounds from an ETC flying around, punching holes in conduits, bulkheads, and reactors. You could try frangible rounds, but those probably won't be able to go through opponents armor. A solution could be something like vitro-bayonets.
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Old 03-08-2020, 10:33 AM   #63
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: [UT] Integrated retractable bayonet

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Originally Posted by a humble lich View Post

One use for a retractable bayonet even in a fairly realistic setting could be for forces that expect to be fighting in spacecraft.s.
Unless those spacecraft have very robust and damage resistant artificial gravity you have to give thought to fighting in zero-G. You won't want bayonets for that. You'd want at least one of your hands free for grabbing.

You don't get vibro-weapons with realism anyway. You use tanglers and diamond-tipped drills for people in heavy armor.
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Old 03-08-2020, 10:35 AM   #64
Verjigorm
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Default Re: [UT] Integrated retractable bayonet

Away from the subject of werewolves, the non lethal weapon options in ultra-tech suffer from a few problems: while great against unarmored people who lack sealed, they may not be very useful if your average civilian wears an environmental suit of some sort. And of course, at TL9, we could be talking about Belters, Spacers, or just Colonists of a somewhat hostile world needing some sort of protective device for daily activities.

Consider at the low-end you may have to expect that civilians may have ready access to sealed suits with DR(ranging from 2-15), protected vision and protected hearing. Sealed pretty much negates any tear gas or similar gas weapon system. So you can't rely on tear-gassing the protesters. And even today, protesters have shown a capability to jury-rig set ups to provide protection from the chemical weapons, leading towards the use of more extreme, physical means.

Electrolasers had AD(2), so they stand a decent chance at penetrating lighter suits, but against something like the space bio-suit, they're just not going to cut the mustard. MAD weapons don't have an Armor Divisor, so relatively lightweight equipment will do wonders for preventing harm. Sonic Stunners and Nasautors are short ranged, resisted by protected hearing, and in the case of stunners, a fifth of DR.

Now, on the other hand, threatening to poke someone in a suit with a bayonet, well, it's a credible threat, and only gets more so with super fine and/or vibroblade modifications. And a suit failure could expose the protester to all sorts of fun stuff, like the aforementioned tear gas, or the MAD weapons.
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Old 03-08-2020, 10:58 AM   #65
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: [UT] Integrated retractable bayonet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
No it wouldn't. You have to be 25mm or larger to not take te ding to P-class.

Who's using armor-piercing ammo agaisnt naked werewolves anyway?
APDS only drops pi damage by one step (Ultratech, p. 152). Since 10mm CL deals pi++ damage, the resulting modifier is pi+. As for using armor piercing rounds on werewolves, UT werewolves could be wearing armor (even powered armor!)
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Old 03-08-2020, 11:05 AM   #66
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: [UT] Integrated retractable bayonet

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Originally Posted by Verjigorm View Post
A

Now, on the other hand, threatening to poke someone in a suit with a bayonet, well, it's a credible threat,
However, it leaves your riot police without riot shields. A riot shield is a handy thign to have when masses in the street start throwing things. If you're not going to shoot why are you issuing rifles. Then if you only want to threaten sharp force trauma you're not going to be taken seriously anyway.

Send out thousand pound warbots with heavy non-lethal weapons for crowd control instead of men with pointed sticks.

People keep trying to come up with "Well, the bayonet could be used for _something_!" but it's generally something that another alternative would do better.
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Old 03-08-2020, 11:07 AM   #67
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: [UT] Integrated retractable bayonet

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
APDS only drops pi damage by one step (Ultratech, p. 152). Since 10mm CL deals pi++ damage, the resulting modifier is pi+. (even powered armor!)
10mm weapons only do P++ before errata. The standard rule is P+ for a base which will then be taken down to P.
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Old 03-08-2020, 11:17 AM   #68
Rupert
 
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Default Re: [UT] Integrated retractable bayonet

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
APDS only drops pi damage by one step (Ultratech, p. 152). Since 10mm CL deals pi++ damage, the resulting modifier is pi+. As for using armor piercing rounds on werewolves, UT werewolves could be wearing armor (even powered armor!)
Errata: http://www.sjgames.com/errata/gurps/4e/ultra-tech.html

Check the last entry under p.137.
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