Thoughts and Experiences based on a low to high level 411 session campaign

[Rupert]

I do mean the GURPS technical sense. However, one character has 1,055 points, and if you discount the 72 points she's got in psionics, she's quite within normal human limits. Base attributes all 14, +1 Per, +0.25 Speed, and +2 HP. 108 points of non-psionic advantages, including several languages and cultures, Very Fit and Filthy Rich. She does have 621 points in non-psionic skills (and is thus extremely non optimised), but her highest are two at 24, three at 22, one at 21, and four at 20, and the rest are all under 20.

I think she started at 200 points. It might have been 150.

I've okayed converting skill points into DX and IQ (as long as no skill's levels are reduced in the process), but the player either isn't interested in doing so or hasn't gotten round to it.

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

Originally Posted by Rupert

I do mean the GURPS technical sense. However, one character has 1,055 points, and if you discount the 72 points she's got in psionics, she's quite within normal human limits. Base attributes all 14, +1 Per, +0.25 Speed, and +2 HP. 108 points of non-psionic advantages, including several languages and cultures, Very Fit and Filthy Rich. She does have 621 points in non-psionic skills (and is thus extremely non optimised), but her highest are two at 24, three at 22, one at 21, and four at 20, and the rest are all under 20.

I think she started at 200 points. It might have been 150.

I've okayed converting skill points into DX and IQ (as long as no skill's levels are reduced in the process), but the player either isn't interested in doing so or hasn't gotten round to it.

Given that I listed "being a billionaire" as an effective superpower, I am uncertain what your point is.

To be blunt, given that I listed "Batguy" as an example of a character with said effective superpower, I haven't had a clue what you're arguing with me about since your first post in this thread.

[Rupert]

You were saying characters at 1,000 points couldn't or shouldn't be mundane. I'm providing a counter example. And 'flithy rich' is not a millionaire, but if you want to call is a super power, we can remove it along with the psionics, and have a character worth about 940 points that's definitely mundane, and I bet I can add 60 points for attributes and non-silly skills without any trouble if you really want a 1,000 point example.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad!

At that point-total, even if you buy nothing but levels of mundane skills, you're still either hitting skill levels high enough that you could win the Olympics in multiple events, or you've put points in basket-weaving to ensure none of your skills rise "too high".

I think you confuse "mundane" with "realistic". James Bond is "mundane" in GURPS terms, but he's not realistic.

[Anaraxes]

You can't cite a real person as evidence of a non-"mundane" character. Perhaps you feel that high point totals aren't "normal" or "ordinary" or some other word -- which is fine. It's a reasonable opinion.

But "a 1,000-point character is not, and should not, be mundane, unless "normal humans" are superhuman" just doesn't make sense to me when you're citing an actual person. If 1000 points is your definition of "superhuman", then yes, occasionally "normal" humans can be "superhuman". If you mean four-color, then our SEAL / astronaut / double-doctorate isn't "superhuman".

The debate is just about connotations of different words being used in casual senses. If "superhuman" means "noticeably more effective as some set of tasks than the median human", then yes, Kim is superhuman. If it means "possessing impossible powers that people don't really have as in comic books", he's not. You can throw Dune-esque characters that, in theory, are simply highly trained (and sometimes selected or bred) individual into either category, as the level of "training" and resultant ability becomes implausible; this is the "super-normal" Batman category. Merely having two doctorates just needs a number of years of school, so that's not really a super-normal feat. NASA gets to be pretty selective about their astronauts, since there are so few, and the military history of astronauts and test pilots means they -- traditionally, but becoming less so --get to be picky about physical traits. But unusual combinations or tails of bell curves doesn't equate to supernatural, exotic, or beyond human.

In game terms, the GURPS definition of "mundane" is particularly useful since it helps characterize the setting, which might be anything from truly mundane 25 point housewives bemoaning their suburban existence to gods bestriding the multiverse. Using the word just to mean "close to the average or median" tells you a lot less about what might be going on in the setting.

[weby]

Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad!

So rather than nerfing the casters, perhaps buffing the non-casters was in order.

Of course, I only have this brief overview, so it is entirely possible I don't know what I'm talking about. :)

The problem is not so much the other players, it is the opponents. All opponents will need insane amounts of magic resistance or Will and HT to not be affected by crowd control. That is not so much a problem with bosses, but having all minions taken out or helping to fight the boss gets old after a while while the rest of the group has dropped one or two minions...

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

So basically the problem is that I used "mundane" in the casual sense and almost everyone read it as the GURPS-technical term.

[weby]

Experts at work
About 1000 to 2000 points

A fairly long feeling stretch because of the big changes that had to be made. We finally abandoned the Gurps standard magic at around 1300 points due to total breakdown.

We temporarily used the magic system from Rolemaster as several of the players knew the system well from previous games with it.

But in addition to the magic system, several other things broke down, things like ranged characters being clearly superior to melee attackers. This is mainly due to having enough skill to ignore the low range penalties and ability to move and attack effectively. My solution was to introduce "Heroic Melee" advantage that allows for move and attacks without the 9 cap.

In addition most attribute related rolls in the system really do not make sense when you have 17+ attributes. So things had to be tweaked.

Critical success rules broke down rather spectacularly with "crit hunting" builds that went to maximum attack number and critical hit on 7, ignoring deceptive attack and using that extra skill instead to chinks in armor, targeting vitals and such. My solution at this point was to re-balance criticals with a critical success only giving -10 in extra deceptive penalty to the enemy defenses, but still allowing the defense and changing criticals to happen at most on 5-

Other things breaking was traditional dungeon design with the scrying, teleportation and similar capabilities.

At this point range the characters were already real experts, basically on personal level being able to take on almost anything, but still not really world altering.

Kieron Demilier: Knowledge expert that also did traps and locks. Almost never hit in combat due to stealth and rapid movements and positioning. Dues decent effect against living things but suffers against things that do not take extra from impaling.
Jaysek Demilier: Being a mage can do anything and well, and even more so.
Ra Dana: Is a proper tank now, with decent damage, but more and more insane defenses.
Neeia Liamyn: Continues crowd control, being still the master of managing the battle field, but less game breaking after the change of the magic system. Also does fairly well in melee(as in better than 99.999% of the fighters in the world)

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

Originally Posted by weby

The problem is not so much the other players, it is the opponents. All opponents will need insane amounts of magic resistance or Will and HT to not be affected by crowd control. That is not so much a problem with bosses, but having all minions taken out or helping to fight the boss gets old after a while while the rest of the group has dropped one or two minions...

The thing is, at 1,000 points, a "minion" is at least 250; that is, for example, John McClane from the first Die Hard movie.

I think "insane amounts of will, and some luck" fits that character very well. :)

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

Originally Posted by weby

Critical success rules broke down rather spectacularly with "crit hunting" builds that went to maximum attack number and critical hit on 7, ignoring deceptive attack and using that extra skill instead to chinks in armor, targeting vitals and such. My solution at this point was to re-balance criticals with a critical success only giving -10 in extra deceptive penalty to the enemy defenses, but still allowing the defense and changing criticals to happen at most on 5-

Critical hit number is already capped to 6- by default.