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Old 05-29-2020, 09:40 AM   #1
sparcipx
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Default Anti-power plant rockets

Hi Folks, first time poster.

My old Car Wars group is reforming (after a 30 year hiatus) and while we worked out schedules, we did a bit of reminiscing. One topic that came up was the anti-power plant rocket (APPR).

In the years we spent gaming together, none of us recalls ever having successfully USED one of these things to knock out an opponent's power plant. In fact, the one time an APPR was deployed against a vehicle, it ended up missing the plant (and killing my wounded gunner).

We're curious to know - have any of you ever successfully killed a power plant with an APPR?
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:26 PM   #2
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Anti-power plant rockets

No. And I never heard of anyone else that did either.

For it to work you needed to have blown through the armour and all weapons on that side already. If you hit from the side (or top or bottom) you then had only a 1 in 3 chance of it hitting the plant (rather than the crew compartment or cargo). If you fired into the front or back you would normally have stripped out enough other stuff to not need to kill the plant anymore.

Assuming it even hit, and that in blowing through the armour you hadn't already damaged the plant (an possibly set the car on fire), and assuming the damage that you had to do to the plant to make it work didn't destroy it anyway.

I think it was planned as a coup de grace, but frankly you would be better off spending the $500 on almost ANYTHING else and just kill the plant the normal way. Sure salvage would be less, but you could offset that with the cost of the anti-power plant rocket and the extra damage you would probably take whilst faffing around trying to engineer a situation where an APPR could be effectively deployed.

The only case where it might have been useful is against cycles as you had a reasonable chance of hitting the plant once you got through armour from any direction and no armour on the sides at all. Of course with the few DPs electric cycle plants had you generally didn't need much more than a light mini-rocket to total most of them anyway, so again a conventional AP rocket would be more cost effective.

As Uncle Al may have said "You can sell anything to someone".
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Old 05-29-2020, 02:03 PM   #3
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Anti-power plant rockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparcipx View Post
We're curious to know - have any of you ever successfully killed a power plant with an APPR?
Never. The APPR is a shining example of what ended up killing CW; "the answer to a question *no one* asked".

Meanwhile, more-useful rocket loads (see the 2036 UAC) got bounced out for no apparent reason.
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Old 05-29-2020, 04:33 PM   #4
sparcipx
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Default Re: Anti-power plant rockets

As I suspected. We never really saw the utility of the APPR either, or for that matter, the Vehicular Shotgun.
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Old 05-30-2020, 02:02 PM   #5
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Anti-power plant rockets

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Originally Posted by sparcipx View Post
As I suspected. We never really saw the utility of the APPR either, or for that matter, the Vehicular Shotgun.
The VSG was created solely for "Checkpoint Charlie" events, where one had to deal "anti-vehicle damage" to a target point. I only ever saw VSG outside those events once; and with the prevalence of Metal Armor in low-Division NOVA events (where HESH-loaded weapons were a rarity), the utter worthlessness of VSGs was apparent.

A Solution to a Problem which never should have existed in the first place.
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Old 05-30-2020, 03:58 PM   #6
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Anti-power plant rockets

I disagree somewhat regarding the VSG. They are useful for low budget events with novice players. As they do fixed damage, it is one less variable for them to have to second guess in their risk balance calculations.

Their game stats though could do with a tweak to balance them against more competitive weapons though, there is no way they would be seen in the wild - unless someone had a novel attack stratagem.

The flechette gun on the other hand :( A total waste of paper. At least the VSG does full damage to vehicular components. One point of wheel guards (which people often put on just to stave off pedestrians with hand guns) makes it useless 2/3 of the time.
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Old 05-30-2020, 05:01 PM   #7
svawter
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Default Re: Anti-power plant rockets

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Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
I disagree somewhat regarding the VSG. They are useful for low budget events with novice players. As they do fixed damage, it is one less variable for them to have to second guess in their risk balance calculations.

Their game stats though could do with a tweak to balance them against more competitive weapons though, there is no way they would be seen in the wild - unless someone had a novel attack stratagem.

The flechette gun on the other hand :( A total waste of paper. At least the VSG does full damage to vehicular components. One point of wheel guards (which people often put on just to stave off pedestrians with hand guns) makes it useless 2/3 of the time.
Aha, but for shredding peds? The FG sure is fun... although, for crowds, the VFRP is likely better! (I ran a ped kill game at a convention)
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Old 05-30-2020, 07:10 PM   #8
sparcipx
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Default Re: Anti-power plant rockets

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Originally Posted by svawter View Post
Aha, but for shredding peds? The FG sure is fun... although, for crowds, the VFRP is likely better! (I ran a ped kill game at a convention)
I tend to agree - the FG has its uses, and has made its way onto a few of my designs. They're great for mechanically separating meat from potential cycle salvage ;)

Now that I've opened the can of worms, three other weapons I liked in theory but not practice were the unholy trinity of the mine flinger, the oil gun, and the spike gun. With an effective range of only 4" (at least for the mine flinger), in my mind it's easier and less costly in terms of weight and space to use a standard MD, SD, or OJ/ID/PS.

Although it was always fun firing an SG at pedestrians...

Last edited by sparcipx; 05-30-2020 at 07:56 PM. Reason: 4" range was for mine flinger, not the other weapons listed
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Old 05-31-2020, 02:10 PM   #9
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Anti-power plant rockets

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Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
I disagree somewhat regarding the VSG. They are useful for low budget events with novice players. As they do fixed damage, it is one less variable for them to have to second guess in their risk balance calculations.
True Story: My last championship event before NOVA booted me out was a Division 5. I brought my usual -- an INS-series Subcompact with 5-6 pts. Metal on each side. One opponent brought twin linked VSGs... knowing full-well I always brought Metal to low-Div. events. Needless to say: He got his head handed to him, and still carped long-and-loud about his lack of vision.

That's what I refer to when I say "VSGs are useless outside Checkpoint events"; I suppose one *might* be able to use them effectively en-masse against Plastic-armored vehicles, but I doubt it.
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Old 05-31-2020, 02:36 PM   #10
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Anti-power plant rockets

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Originally Posted by svawter View Post
Aha, but for shredding peds? The FG sure is fun... although, for crowds, the VFRP is likely better! (I ran a ped kill game at a convention)
The FG is cheap, but I have never been in a situation where pure anti-ped is a likely mission, but I accept that in those circumstances it is probably the cheapest and lightest option.

As as default for anti-ped operations I use the MML. Whilst it is less accurate (and does a point less damage), with the FG you actually have to hit, the burst effect means the MML only needs to be close (and with 1" burst not even that close), you can target the ground (or when they are behind cover, the wall behind them).

If you want to take out several peds together with the FG you need to go area effect roll to hit each of them (allowing your opponent to select which are actually hit) and divide your damage in half. The MML just catches them in the blast (with no additional to hit roll). The area effect can only hit Peds within 1", the MML within 2".

And of course with the MML you can also damage a vehicle, and possibly catch a cyclist in the burst effect as a bonus.

The most efficient flechette solution is probably the Flechette Discharger. This hits all exposed pedestrians in a 2" radius with no to hit roll required. More expensive per shot, and twice as heavy, but they take up no space and you don't need the gun. Ideal for a drive-by killing. You can only mount 2 on the side of a car and you probably want them both linked so you do 2d6 per ped (which means IBA is needed to stand any chance of survival).

MGs can use AP ammo, but flechette guns can't. Double damage is better than +1. It still does full damage to vehicular components.

Even against peds the FG is marginal at best.
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