Combat question for symmetrical high-defense fights

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

For reference, here is the NPC character sheet I was using.

The PC has DX 16, HT 15, Acrobatics 16, Enhanced Dodge 3, and Combat Reflexes, for a Dodge 14, with No Encumbrance. Also Judo and Karate at 18 with Enhanced Parry 3.

Both were making a lot of Acrobatic Dodges, though I tried to mix things up with parries when necessary, along with a Cloak Block against the PC shooting at the NPC's foot (we joke about the player's character having a foot fetish as she keeps shooting peoples' feet; good tactic, except when cloak + boot DR soaks damage entirely).

I remembered Deceptive Attack was a thing late in the fight, which helped later. Also, neither one of us used Feints - except during a lull in the fighting which was more of a "is this a flash-bang or a frag grenade I'm holding?" on the PC's part.


We were doing this in a dock-side freight yard, so yes, terrain was a thing we took into account. No featureless white plains for us.

So you made characters with ridiculously high defences and are unhappy with them being able to defend so well?



There's your problem right there!

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by lachimba

So you made characters with ridiculously high defences and are unhappy with them being able to defend so well?



There's your problem right there!

Not all of my NPCs are that insane in defenses ("fish telepathy op" got tossed out by another player, though his tongue may have drilled a hole in his cheek saying it), and I didn't make the PC's sheet. Just bad luck the NPC the player chose to fight was so evenly matched.

And to be fair, I'm not the one that started complaining first (the player was), though after 3 hrs of combat on IRC with no solid hits, we decided to leave the fight unresolved. It was out-of-continuity anyway. :)

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

Not all of my NPCs are that insane in defenses ("fish telepathy op" got tossed out by another player, though his tongue may have drilled a hole in his cheek saying it), and I didn't make the PC's sheet. Just bad luck the NPC the player chose to fight was so evenly matched.

Okay, but...is it really a desired feature to make a fight where for legit build reasons it's incredibly hard for either side to land a hit happen in sharply compressed time? These are the kind of stats that make fighting to mutual exhaustion with nobody actually getting hit seem reasonable!

[Phantasm]

All that being said, neither of us were using Feint options (no feints, beats, nor ruses). Next time, we'll add it to our bag of tricks.

This is my list of potential bad guys.. Pretty sure the PC in question has the highest defenses in the party.

[ericthered]

A while back I figured out a way to quickly resolve combats that take a long time to resolve in game and wrote a blog post on it: cinematic sword play. It actually makes the combats last a little longer, and it abstracts away a lot, but it lets you roll twice and say "After 2 minutes of sword-play, you finally land a hit. Everyone else, what were you doing during those two minutes?"

The basic idea is you add your attack skill and twice your effective defense skill and divide by three, and run a quick contest with those numbers. The winner scores a hit at a random location after an amount of time determined by the lowest defense score.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

All that being said, neither of us were using Feint options (no feints, beats, nor ruses). Next time, we'll add it to our bag of tricks.

Yes. I don't know if it will really solve the problem (I didn't try it) but I think that with such high scores, all the possible options must be used.

Like for every other RPG, actually. As soon as the characters are outstandingly skilled, optional rules are added to make the game playable and interesting again.

[Tom H.]

Originally Posted by ericthered

The basic idea is you add your attack skill and twice your effective defense skill and divide by three, and run a quick contest with those numbers. The winner scores a hit at a random location after an amount of time determined by the lowest defense score.

I like these kind of options.

I think there is room in GURPS for an optional, more abstracted turn for simpler, faster-playing combats that can also model some of the gaps and hesitation characters would experience.

We have so many options including Mass Combat, why not Abstract Combat?

I plan to experiment with my own composite, 3-second turn abstractions. And maybe try to integrate it with an optional 12-second, long turn especially useful for inter-combat movement or both recovery and waiting behind cover.

[Sam Baughn]

Originally Posted by Tom H.

I think there is room in GURPS for an optional, more abstracted turn for simpler, faster-playing combats that can also model some of the gaps and hesitation characters would experience.

The chase rules in Action 2 already include such a turn structure.

It actually works fine as a general-purpose abstract combat system so long as it's mostly ranged combat.

I'd really like to see something similar for melee combat which also allows reach to be important.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by ericthered

A while back I figured out a way to quickly resolve combats that take a long time to resolve in game and wrote a blog post on it: cinematic sword play.

That is so nice I'm stealing it twice!