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Old 02-15-2018, 05:46 AM   #41
mlangsdorf
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Negative Hit Point effects

The effects of General Injury on B419 specifically say that you roll to avoid going unconscious on any turn when you choose a maneuver other than Do Nothing or attempt a defense roll.
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:06 AM   #42
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Negative Hit Point effects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
B364 says that 'Do Nothing' allows no movement. Thus if they move at all, they risk collapsing.
Oops, good point - I was thinking Do Nothing still allowed a step, but you're right, it's just straight up "None!" for movement.

I probably would allow someone with negative HP to move, but at a very slow pace, effectively not combat-relevant. But moving, say, 10 yards in a minute doesn't strike me as impossible, even for someone badly wounded.
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:06 AM   #43
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Default Re: Negative Hit Point effects

"If you choose Do Nothing on your turn,
and do not attempt any defense
rolls, you can remain conscious
without rolling. Roll only on turns
during which you attempt a
defense roll or choose a maneuver
other than Do Nothing."

Huh so it does, yep that's pretty clear then!

It's never really come up for me, since I can't remember anyone not defending if they had a choice when someone's about to attack them!

(but I could see a situation where you might ignore an attack that hasn't got much of a chance of hurting you compared to where you are now, and don't want to rsk an unconsciousness check)
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:18 AM   #44
Tomsdad
 
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Default Re: Negative Hit Point effects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Oops, good point - I was thinking Do Nothing still allowed a step, but you're right, it's just straight up "None!" for movement.

I probably would allow someone with negative HP to move, but at a very slow pace, effectively not combat-relevant. But moving, say, 10 yards in a minute doesn't strike me as impossible, even for someone badly wounded.
FWIW since I use last gasp I tweak that here

My house rules are I tend to extend the period of time you have to make unconsciousness checks*, but double AP costs for actions made at 0 or less HP (as well as making the 1st step cost 2 AP, so moving at all will cost you and moving a high amount compared to your Mv score will cost you big, (which is a double whammy as your Mv is halved)

That way you can push yourself further and further into the AP/FP hole by not constantly pausing to take recovery actions, but if you do too much you risk dropping your HT score along with other stats which has a knock on effects for Consciousness, bleeding and death checks, as well as other stat based things!

One other tweak** I do in Last gasp is if you suddenly take an AP hit to take you to negative AP you have to work your way back to positive via recovery actions or burning FP's, 2nd winds etc. This only really happens with big injuries but that could be relevant here.

e.g say you have a ST12, HT11 chap with enough points spent on relevant advantages to have 14 AP, and in the middle of fight when he was at 8 AP, he get's hit for a 14 cutting injury. This drops him to -2 HP, and he gets a success when making a HT roll to mitigate the AP loss which means he also loses 13AP taking him to -5AP. Now even if he burns a FP to gain back 6 AP (half of HT rounded up) he'll only be back to 1AP!

Which basically means if you take a big hit you have two choices wait on several recovery actions to bring you back up to a usable amount of AP (usable being a relative term subject to double AP cost above), or burn a couple of FPs and risk the hit of that for later recovery and doing other things.



*given other physiological responses to ongoing situations occur in longer time frames that per second (i.e bleeding & partial injuries)

**At least I think this is a tweak, the Pyramid article says AP can't be reduced below 0, but that might just mean it can't intentionally be reduced to less than zero by actions taken by the person in question (which losing AP due to injury isn't really)

Last edited by Tomsdad; 02-15-2018 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:46 AM   #45
jsbrewster1
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Default Re: Negative Hit Point effects

I've decided my house rule is going to be pretty simple. If you are in negative hit points, or a hit takes you to negative hit points, your HT roll to remain conscious is affected by shock. I went back to my mock combat and looked at all of the rolls, the injured party would have passed out at -5 hit points from the first attack that took him into negative hit points using the shock penalty. Would have made for a much cleaner and quicker combat. But as I said before, the discussion has been very informative, and it's nice to know how active the GURPS community is.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:51 AM   #46
Tomsdad
 
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Default Re: Negative Hit Point effects

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbrewster1 View Post
I've decided my house rule is going to be pretty simple. If you are in negative hit points, or a hit takes you to negative hit points, your HT roll to remain conscious is affected by shock. I went back to my mock combat and looked at all of the rolls, the injured party would have passed out at -5 hit points from the first attack that took him into negative hit points using the shock penalty. Would have made for a much cleaner and quicker combat. But as I said before, the discussion has been very informative, and it's nice to know how active the GURPS community is.
Cool, (would that extra penalty be just for the turn the wound was received going back to normal thereafter?)

Anyway good luck with it, and if you have any questions just post em up!

Cheers

TD
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:13 AM   #47
jsbrewster1
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Default Re: Negative Hit Point effects

Correct, the penalty that applies to other rolls in the round after the attack will apply to the consciousness check as well, or to the check for a major wound.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:26 AM   #48
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Negative Hit Point effects

Do Nothing explicitly allows for Active Defenses (Campaigns, p. 364), though it explicilty forbids Movement. Being at negative HP is what forbids Active Defenses if you want to avoid rolling to stay conscious.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:38 AM   #49
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Negative Hit Point effects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Oops, good point - I was thinking Do Nothing still allowed a step, but you're right, it's just straight up "None!" for movement.

I probably would allow someone with negative HP to move, but at a very slow pace, effectively not combat-relevant. But moving, say, 10 yards in a minute doesn't strike me as impossible, even for someone badly wounded.
Do remember that once you pass out and wake back up, you're no longer at risk of passing out and can act normally (allowing for the <1/3 HP effects).


I'm reminded of a factor that I'd previously missed, and which seems perhaps a bit of a problem. If you're below -1 HP and fail your only-one-ever roll to wake up after 12 hours, you're in a Mortal Wound-lite coma and cannot recover without surgery. The section says 'without medical treatment', which sounds better, but it points to Stabilizing a Mortal Wound which is surgery only.
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:58 AM   #50
Rupert
 
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Default Re: Negative Hit Point effects

Quote:
Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Nitpick

(212/216)^30 = 57.077%

(212/216)^60 = 32.578%
Right you are. I typed '50' instead of '30' into my calculator.
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