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Old 01-18-2018, 02:01 PM   #21
AlexanderHowl
 
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In any case, $800 billion is a lot of debt for a corporation to possess. The capital repayment is $40 billion per year for 20 years, meaning that a company would have to have $80 billion per year of net profits or else their lenders are going to get real nervous. Now, corporate bond rates are an average of around 2%, meaning that the interest payments for $800 billion a year are around $16 billion per year, but you are still talking about a lot of debt.
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:16 PM   #22
Alonsua
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In any case, $800 billion is a lot of debt for a corporation to possess. The capital repayment is $40 billion per year for 20 years, meaning that a company would have to have $80 billion per year of net profits or else their lenders are going to get real nervous. Now, corporate bond rates are an average of around 2%, meaning that the interest payments for $800 billion a year are around $16 billion per year, but you are still talking about a lot of debt.
Exactly, but by the rules at Boardroom and Curia they make a fix profit of 6% with factors depending on skill levels, since they are supposed to be able to negotiate some of the best interest rates I set it up at 6%, then. After the factors have been applied they have a relative skill of Finance=30, which in turn allows for "((30-10)*0.05+1)*0.06*Startup Cost" so "Resource Value" turn to be about $39.679.200.000/year, letīs say they have to pay interest rates with that for $3.514.368.000/year loan cost and still the company is turning a profit of $36.164.832.000/year. If then they borrow $800 billion dollars, they will be paying $48B/year of interest, but turning $96B/year of profits only on those 800 billions... And then you need to take into account the "compound" profits, so in twenty years they have gotten $2.648 billions :S

Isnīt there a rule for diminishing returns, or anything alike? If not, I would need to come up with difficulty modifiers for Finance skill aplicable to job rolls, and will still be at problem even when reaching the "impossible" level at -10 (3% of profits, for a return after twenty years of over $1.456 billions, minus 800 billions that means a net of $656 billions) :S

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Old 01-18-2018, 02:29 PM   #23
whswhs
 
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Well, I'm going to ask how you get them to Finance-30?
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:32 PM   #24
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Well, I'm going to ask how you get them to Finance-30?
Finance-24 (possible by Whoīs Who), Best Quality Equipment+4, Help from others+2
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:47 PM   #25
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Finance-24 (possible by Whoīs Who), Best Quality Equipment+4, Help from others+2
In Who's Who, we used skills in the over-20 range to represent the very greatest figures in a field in all of history: Aristotle or Darwin in Naturalist, Shakespeare in Poetry, Alexander or Napoleon in Strategy, you get the idea. "Best in a particular generation" would likely be 18-20. And in any case, Who's Who was a 3/e book, and Social Engineering is a 4/e book; it's not guaranteed that you can put them together that way.

What sort of "equipment" do you imagine someone using for Finance? It doesn't seem like the sort of technological skill where tools are a tremendous help.

Could you clarify the "help from others"? I'm not sure what rule you're basing that on.

In any case, if you're supposing that your entrepreneur is the best in all of history at finding investors and raising capital, I don't think it's that unreasonable to suppose that they might have raised a lot more than any actual enterpreneur has raised today. It's not guaranteed, after all, that any actual present-day entrepreneur is the best in all of history.
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:57 PM   #26
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In Who's Who, we used skills in the over-20 range to represent the very greatest figures in a field in all of history: Aristotle or Darwin in Naturalist, Shakespeare in Poetry, Alexander or Napoleon in Strategy, you get the idea. "Best in a particular generation" would likely be 18-20. And in any case, Who's Who was a 3/e book, and Social Engineering is a 4/e book; it's not guaranteed that you can put them together that way.

What sort of "equipment" do you imagine someone using for Finance? It doesn't seem like the sort of technological skill where tools are a tremendous help.

Could you clarify the "help from others"? I'm not sure what rule you're basing that on.

In any case, if you're supposing that your entrepreneur is the best in all of history at finding investors and raising capital, I don't think it's that unreasonable to suppose that they might have raised a lot more than any actual enterpreneur has raised today. It's not guaranteed, after all, that any actual present-day entrepreneur is the best in all of history.
Yes, but should it be equally difficult to run a little company with ten employees and about a few hundred thousands in equity than a multibillion dollar corporation? Should it be equally easy to borrow a few thousands than a couple hundred of billions? At which point should I set the difficulty modifiers? I have tried but I have been unable to find any answer to these questions :S

*As for "Best Quality Equipment" I would say software, or contacts :S
*As for "help from others" p. 34 Social Engineering "Groups With a Focal Performer" or p. 21 Social Engineering "Complementary Skills", I do not know if p. 474 Campaigns under "Prototype" "Modifiers: ... +1 per assistant with skill 20+ in one of the skills required for the invention, to a maximum of +4..." would apply, and I have houseruled that rule into "with skill 15+" (maybe it was a wrong decision, in which case I could fix it setting back to normal, but skill 20+ seems out of the roof for an assistant, moreover since they can start inventing "Average" complexity things at skill 15)

Last edited by Alonsua; 01-18-2018 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 01-18-2018, 03:46 PM   #27
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*As for "Best Quality Equipment" I would say software, or contacts :S
*As for "help from others" p. 34 Social Engineering "Groups With a Focal Performer" or p. 21 Social Engineering "Complementary Skills", I do not know if p. 474 Campaigns under "Prototype" "Modifiers: ... +1 per assistant with skill 20+ in one of the skills required for the invention, to a maximum of +4..." would apply, and I have houseruled that rule into "with skill 15+" (maybe it was a wrong decision, in which case I could fix it setting back to normal, but skill 20+ seems out of the roof for an assistant, moreover since they can start inventing "Average" complexity things at skill 15)
Contacts are not "equipment." And really, software isn't particularly relevant to Finance. It can do a lot for Accounting, but Finance is about persuading people to help fund you.

I don't think the rules for groups with a focal performer, or for inventing and gadgeteering, should be transferred over to this very different domain of human action. And in any case, the requirement for skill 20+ is meant seriously.

Now, I'd accept complementary skills, but what particular skills are you envisioning as complementary in this case?

And even setting aside those concerns, if you just drop base skill from 24 to 20 (a reasonable "best of this generation") and apply the same bonuses, you're looking at dividing the expected funds raised by 20, which gets you down into the range of actually existing businesses.
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Old 01-18-2018, 03:54 PM   #28
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Contacts are not "equipment." And really, software isn't particularly relevant to Finance. It can do a lot for Accounting, but Finance is about persuading people to help fund you.

I don't think the rules for groups with a focal performer, or for inventing and gadgeteering, should be transferred over to this very different domain of human action. And in any case, the requirement for skill 20+ is meant seriously.

Now, I'd accept complementary skills, but what particular skills are you envisioning as complementary in this case?

And even setting aside those concerns, if you just drop base skill from 24 to 20 (a reasonable "best of this generation") and apply the same bonuses, you're looking at dividing the expected funds raised by 20, which gets you down into the range of actually existing businesses.
And how is supposedly possible to get any assistant at all if best of this generation is 20 and you only get modifiers from assistants with 20+? I also do not get how would funds be divided by 20, but maybe I misunderstood the rules, Finance-22 is Monthly Income x40 for 50% success, isnīt it?
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Old 01-18-2018, 04:11 PM   #29
whswhs
 
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And how is supposedly possible to get any assistant at all if best of this generation is 20 and you only get modifiers from assistants with 20+? I also do not get how would funds be divided by 20, but maybe I misunderstood the rules, Finance-22 is Monthly Income x40 for 50% success, isnīt it?
Ah, no. The starting -3 for ten months' income reduces effecive skill to Finance-19. Then an additional -3 reduces it to Finance-16 and gets 100 months income; an additional -3 reduces it to Finance-19 and gets 1000 months income; and a final -3 reduces it to Finance-10 and gets 10,000 months income.
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Old 01-18-2018, 04:30 PM   #30
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Ah, no. The starting -3 for ten months' income reduces effecive skill to Finance-19. Then an additional -3 reduces it to Finance-16 and gets 100 months income; an additional -3 reduces it to Finance-19 and gets 1000 months income; and a final -3 reduces it to Finance-10 and gets 10,000 months income.
O_O <-- (My eyes)

This... is... too much. I am surprised to say the least. How am I supposed to integrate Boardroom and Curia with this? By this rule, since at 1.990 the company founders were working as "the best of the best" in their fields, their income was at the $420.000-$720.000/month range (average $570.000), so since one of them was actually a CEO for a multinational company with out of the files Finance skill of 24, that means that they could raise $5.700.000.000 with a success of 74.07% at 1.990 instead of $142.800.000 (and this not taking into account any modifiers), and if they work on the same products getting the same monthly results every day and developing the company in the same business verticals, at a CAGR of 32.14% the company is looking at $13.900.000.000.000 by 2018 :S

*And this not taking into account that they could take the loan for five years, paying it by 1.995 having an equity of $1.709.000.000 and monthly income of $14.526.500 thus proceeding to take a new loan for this income, borrowing $145.265.000.000 and same thing happening every five years, sitting at the end of twenty eight years on the top of $4.837.767.870.000.000 (multiply as prefered if they also know Politics, Administration, Savoir-Faire (High Society) or Streetwise)

*As for Alternate GURPS, I think that this system is broken and they dont hold up together.

* "Large Loan: -1 to find a loan worth up to two months of income, -2 for up to five months, -3 for up to ten months, and an additional -3 for each additional 10x the amount." I thought this to be rarely spelled, but now it makes sense. At first I thought it was -3 for up to ten, plus -3 for every +10 to that first x10, like x20, x30, x40 and so on.

Last edited by Alonsua; 01-18-2018 at 05:04 PM.
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