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Old 01-05-2018, 11:34 AM   #1
Crystalline_Entity
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: England
Default [Powers/Sorcery] Delayed Mind Control Spells

I'm trying to develop another pair of spells for my sorcerer, but having trouble getting my head around the Mind Control advantage.

First Spell

The first spell is to pre-program instructions to be acted on on a certain trigger, for example giving the Baron's maid the instruction "When you get to the Baron's bedroom, search it for the missing amulet and bring it to me in the village after you finish work, and if you're found come up with an excuse". The delayed aspect sounds like a Triggered Delay (+50%; B105), the ability to genuinely rationalise it is Rationalisation (from Psionic Powers p.15), but the default advantage seems to assume I'm giving commands at the present time rather than programming them in advance.

I then looked at the Conditioning enhancement, but that seems to be based around adding a disadvantage, which is overkill for what I want here, and I wouldn't be sure how to cost "search the room" as a disadvantage anyway. I don't want to give the maid a delusion for days, just get her to do something fairly simple for a few hours! It also takes too long to cast which I guess can be gotten around with Reduced Time.

I've never really understood Reprogrammable either, which feels like it might be related to what I'm trying to do here.

Also, Mind Control says you "can mentally dominate those you can see or touch" (B105), and it's not clear how to get around that restriction, if the sorcerer is likely to be miles away this condition won't be met when the instructions are acted on.

Second Spell

Similar to the previous but be able to interactively control the victim when triggered. This would be "when the maid gets to the Baron's room, initiate a Mind Control link so I can give her commands and get feedback on what she finds". I'm hesitantly building this as:

Mind Control (Delayed (Triggered), +50%; Rationalisation, +20%; Reliable 2, +10%) [90] + Telereceive (Accessibility: Only people you are dominating, -20%; Sensory Only, -20%) [18] = [108] in total.

This adds Reliable to Mind Control, to make it harder to resist and so increase the duration (not sure this is a legal use of reliable?). I was unsure whether I needed Independent (from Powers, p.61).

Telereceive is added to get sensory feedback at a distance (the accessibility is costed the same as the "Telecommunication" limitation from B70 which feels fair). I'm not sure if this needs a Triggered Delay too, or if it can be linked to the Mind Control trigger without a further enhancement.

I might be overcomplicating both of these, and the first one especially I've got no idea about, any help or advice is appreciated!
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Old 01-05-2018, 01:37 PM   #2
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: [Powers/Sorcery] Delayed Mind Control Spells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystalline_Entity View Post
The first spell is to pre-program instructions to be acted on on a certain trigger,

[snip]

I then looked at the Conditioning enhancement, but that seems to be based around adding a disadvantage, which is overkill for what I want here,
I think you're right, Conditioning isn't really what you want here. I think this is a place where a new modifier is required. I'd write up something like this:

One Directive: You can control victims' minds, but only to give them a single command, which they must then follow if they succumb to your control. This has the advantages of the Independent enhancement - targets don't impose penalties on other attempts to control others, and don't require ongoing concentration. They are subject to your control, and must follow the initial order you gave, for minutes equal to their margin of loss on the Quick Contest, after which they are freed from your domination. Use Extended Duration to increase this.
If you can issue a complex, detailed command when you first control someone, something that would take up to a minute to describe, this is worth -0%, while if you are limited to brief, simple commands that would take no more than 5 seconds to deliver, this is -50%.

So, your suggestion spell would use Mind Control with that modifier (probably at the -0% level, since it sounds like you can issue complex commands), and Extended Duration at some level to cover it being effective for several hours rather than just minutes. You probably also want No Memory on it, otherwise the target will be free to tell everyone they were mind-controlled after it wears off, and remember your face.

I don't want to give the maid a delusion for days, just get her to do something fairly simple for a few hours! It also takes too long to cast which I guess can be gotten around with Reduced Time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystalline_Entity
Also, Mind Control says you "can mentally dominate those you can see or touch" (B105), and it's not clear how to get around that restriction, if the sorcerer is likely to be miles away this condition won't be met when the instructions are acted on.
The benefit of using the build above is that you don't need to worry about seeing or touching the target when you control them, since it's effectively independent at that point. Note, however, that it's been clarified that "see or touch" also includes "be in mental contact with" - so someone with Telesend as well as Mind Control can keep issuing orders as long as they can maintain that Telesend link with them, even once they're out of sight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystalline_Entity
Similar to the previous but be able to interactively control the victim when triggered. This would be "when the maid gets to the Baron's room, initiate a Mind Control link so I can give her commands and get feedback on what she finds".

I'm hesitantly building this as:

Mind Control (Delayed (Triggered), +50%; Rationalisation, +20%; Reliable 2, +10%) [90] + Telereceive (Accessibility: Only people you are dominating, -20%; Sensory Only, -20%) [18] = [108] in total.
This is mostly right, but note that unless you add in Telesend or another communication ability, you'll have no way to actually give orders once the mind control triggers. I wouldn't allow you to "preset" orders on this build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystalline_Entity
This adds Reliable to Mind Control, to make it harder to resist and so increase the duration (not sure this is a legal use of reliable?).
I think it is, yeah. Mind Control doesn't have any other enhancements that give it a bonus to use, so Reliable is right. Just remember that levels over 16 aren't very useful except against the very strong-willed, since the rule of 16 applies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystalline_Entity
I was unsure whether I needed Independent (from Powers, p.61).
Only if you want it to not need concentration to maintain it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystalline_Entity
Telereceive is added to get sensory feedback at a distance (the accessibility is costed the same as the "Telecommunication" limitation from B70 which feels fair). I'm not sure if this needs a Triggered Delay too, or if it can be linked to the Mind Control trigger without a further enhancement.
I think it does need the triggered delay, yeah. Otherwise, it would start as soon as you cast the spell, and you'd have to effectively continue to concentrate all the time to maintain it until the target got to where you wanted them.
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:09 AM   #3
Crystalline_Entity
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Default Re: [Powers/Sorcery] Delayed Mind Control Spells

Thanks very much for your response.

I think that would make the first spell:

Mind Control (Delay: Triggered, +50%; Extended Duration (x10), +40%; No Memory, +10%; One Directive, +0%; Reliable 2, +10%) [105]

So the sorcerer rolls a quick contest of his IQ+2 versus the target's Will, and if the sorcerer wins, he can implant a complex command to take place when certain conditions are met; this command will be carried out for ten minutes per point the quick contest was won by. Once the commands are performed, the target will have no memory of it ever happening.

The second spell would be:

Mind Control (Delayed (Triggered), +50%; Extended Duration (x10), +40%; Independent, +70%; Rationalisation, +20%; Reliable 2, +10%) [145] + Mind Reading (Accessibility: Only people you are dominating, -20%; Delayed (Triggered), +50%; Long-Range 1, +50%; Sensory Only, -20%) [48] + Telesend (Accessibility: Only people you are dominating, -20%; Delayed (Triggered), +50%) [39]= [232] in total.

This has the same quick contest as the first spell (IQ+2 versus target's Will), but if the sorcerer wins, he implants a trigger condition. Once that condition is met, he gains the ability to command the target as and when he desires, with the effect expiring after 10 minutes per point by which the quick contest was won. When triggered the sorcerer receives sensory feedback from the target, and can send mental commands by telesend. Both these abilities take Long Distance modifiers.

Those both look about right to me, they look like they should do what I want - they're quite expensive, but pretty powerful abilities!

Thanks!
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:23 AM   #4
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: [Powers/Sorcery] Delayed Mind Control Spells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystalline_Entity View Post
Thanks very much for your response.
No problem!

For both of the spells, note that you can and should add the Sorcery, -15% limitation, to make them fit into the Sorcery system, and save you some more points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystalline_Entity
I think that would make the first spell:

Mind Control (Delay: Triggered, +50%; Extended Duration (x10), +40%; No Memory, +10%; One Directive, +0%; Reliable 2, +10%) [105]
For this one, I think you could actually save points by removing the Delay, Triggered, and bumping the Extended Duration up to 100X. 100 minutes of duration per point of failure by the target means that you'll probably have hours of control to play with - using your running example, the caster could simply order the maid to act normal, go the lord's chambers, search for the amulet, and bring it back, all within the likely duration of the control.
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:57 AM   #5
Crystalline_Entity
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Default Re: [Powers/Sorcery] Delayed Mind Control Spells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
For both of the spells, note that you can and should add the Sorcery, -15% limitation, to make them fit into the Sorcery system, and save you some more points.
Oops, yes, I missed the Sorcery modifier. That would make the original version of the first spell:

Mind Control (Delay: Triggered, +50%; Extended Duration (x10), +40%; No Memory, +10%; One Directive, +0%; Reliable 2, +10%, Sorcery, -15%) [98]

And I think the second one would be:

Mind Control (Delayed (Triggered), +50%; Extended Duration (x10), +40%; Independent, +70%; Rationalisation, +20%; Reliable 2, +10%; Sorcery, -15%) [138] + Mind Reading (Accessibility: Only people you are dominating, -20%; Delayed (Triggered), +50%; Long-Range 1, +50%; Magical, -10%; Sensory Only, -20%) [45] + Telesend (Accessibility: Only people you are dominating, -20%; Delayed (Triggered), +50%; Magical, -10%) [36]= [219] in total.

(I think you only add Sorcery to the biggest advantage, the others get Magical -10% instead - the spell doesn't cost 3FP to use).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post

For this one, I think you could actually save points by removing the Delay, Triggered, and bumping the Extended Duration up to 100X. 100 minutes of duration per point of failure by the target means that you'll probably have hours of control to play with.
I like that idea, so it'd become:

Mind Control (Extended Duration (x100), +80%; No Memory, +10%; One Directive, +0%; Reliable 2, +10%, Sorcery, -15%) [93]

Though I imagine this would require Independent too? As the sorcerer won't want to concentrate until the maid reaches the lord's chambers.
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Old 01-07-2018, 09:27 AM   #6
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: [Powers/Sorcery] Delayed Mind Control Spells

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Originally Posted by Crystalline_Entity View Post
Though I imagine this would require Independent too? As the sorcerer won't want to concentrate until the maid reaches the lord's chambers.
No, I added the effect of Independent to the One Directive modifier, if you'll note. If it didn't include Independent, even the "complex instructions" version should be a significant limitation, let alone the "simple instructions" version.
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:26 AM   #7
Crystalline_Entity
 
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Default Re: [Powers/Sorcery] Delayed Mind Control Spells

Ah, I see. That makes sense!

Thanks for your help!
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