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Old 08-13-2021, 09:19 PM   #1
Aman
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Default Alternative Turn Sequence for GEV

Can't complain about OGRE / GEV as games. Well, I can complain that I don't have enough time to play them, but that isn't Steve Jackson's fault!

It occurs to me that the essential platform and mechanics will work just fine for any modern war period, altho the OGRE universe is quite specific and unique, quite 70s - 80s in its focus on nukes and such, which are now relegated to the planning dustbin as a "way out there backup" mostly because if we nuke people and places, they can't buy stuff from us [talking to you Chi-Commies!].

Anyway, had several ideas in mind, but wondering if anyone else has toyed with trying to keep it simple but use a different turn sequence.

Post your thoughts! Alex
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Old 08-14-2021, 01:28 PM   #2
selenite
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minnesota
Default Re: Alternative Turn Sequence for GEV

Only tinkering I've wanted to do with turn sequence is to offer a Defensive Fire option:

Quote:
Defensive Fire: If a unit doesn't move or fire on its turn, place a DF token on it. During the next enemy movement phase (or 2nd movement phase), it may fire on an enemy unit when it moves out of an in range hex. Remove the token when the unit fires or at the end of the enemy turn.
The goal is to let MSLs get a shot off when high-speed units run at them, or for INF to have a shot when something runs right past them.
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Old 08-14-2021, 02:10 PM   #3
43Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Alternative Turn Sequence for GEV

Don't know about anyone else, but: I've experimented with an Initiative-based, non-I-go-you-go movement system. It's a little clunky with the "traditional" one-OGRE-vs.-many-armor-and-INF game.

Works like this: Roll Initiative.

OGRE Wins: 1st 1/3 of Defense moves; OGRE expends 1st MP; 2nd 1/3 of Defense moves; OGRE expends 2nd MP; 3rd 1/3 of Defense moves; OGRE expends 3rd MP. (4MP OGREs expend 2 MP in 1st "phase". If OGRE's MP has been reduced to 2MP, it may not move in P1; if at 1MP, it may not move in P1 and P2.) Firing is handled same as movement. GEVs perform second movement.

Defense Wins: OGRE expends 1st MP; 1st 1/3 of Defense moves; OGRE expends 2nd MP; 2nd 1/3 of Defense moves; OGRE expends 3rd MP; 3rd 1/3 of Defense moves. (4MP OGREs expend 2 MP in 1st "phase". If OGRE's MP has been reduced to 2MP, it may not move in P1; if at 1MP, it may not move in P1 and P2.) Firing is handled same as movement. GEVs perform second movement.
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Last edited by 43Supporter; 08-15-2021 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 08-14-2021, 05:34 PM   #4
Aman
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Default Re: Alternative Turn Sequence for GEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by selenite View Post
Only tinkering I've wanted to do with turn sequence is to offer a Defensive Fire option:



The goal is to let MSLs get a shot off when high-speed units run at them, or for INF to have a shot when something runs right past them.
OK, I can see that thinking. But, if it starts in range, and you shot at it last player turn, then it moves away on its turn, it's like an extra shot?

Or am I misunderstanding that?

I was thinking that to curb the Alpha Strike aspect, I would make the turn sequence:

I fire IF, I move - You Shoot [defensive fire], I shoot [advancing fire] you fire IF, you move.

this would return the defensive shooting to the superior aspect of combat, where it is today.

It also allows artillery - howitzers - to shoot ahead of movement and possibly clear a space for following movement.
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Old 08-15-2021, 11:51 AM   #5
selenite
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minnesota
Default Re: Alternative Turn Sequence for GEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aman View Post
But, if it starts in range, and you shot at it last player turn, then it moves away on its turn, it's like an extra shot?

Or am I misunderstanding that?
In my suggestion, defensive fire is only available for units that didn't move or shoot on their previous turn.

Your interleaved sequence reminds me of squad leader, but I'm not recognizing the "IF" acronym.
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Old 08-16-2021, 09:24 PM   #6
Aman
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Default Re: Alternative Turn Sequence for GEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by selenite View Post
In my suggestion, defensive fire is only available for units that didn't move or shoot on their previous turn.

Your interleaved sequence reminds me of squad leader, but I'm not recognizing the "IF" acronym.
Sorry,
IF - Indirect Fire, e.g. artillery
DF - Direct Fire, rifles and tank guns

gotcha - That mechanic is used in several games, so I don't know why I didn't understand it immediately.

My desire is to limit the Alpha Strike aspect a bit - it pretty much gives most units a 5-hex strike range, with a 6 for MSL tanks, 7 for Mob Howitzers and 8 for Howitzers. The art of play for this system is the counter-strike, which has to be harder than the strike you just took.

I guess my problem is that it feels gamey, like you toss a pawn out to die, then hope to nab a better piece. That's not how we fight today as no one wants to be the pawn! It also slows down my game play as I'm constantly counting 5-8 hex threat ranges to see what the counter is going to be for my move.

I'm toying with the idea of an
I Move - We Shoot Simultaneously, U Move - We Shoot Simultaneously
Which takes care of "who shoots first" and Alpha Strike completely. The answer to the "who shot first most accurately" is answered in the die rolling.

Only problem is it doubles the amount of shooting per turn, so the CRT would have to be halved in effects, which would "split" firepower over the two simultaneous phases.
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