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Old 04-23-2012, 09:24 AM   #1
naraht
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Seraphim and "what lies will work"

You have a team made up of a Mercurian and a Seraph who are trying to get into a Demonic Tether. The Seraph has noticed that the heat is out in the building and says the following. "I believe that we can get in the building if you tell the guard that we are here to fix the heat". This *is* the truth, but is indicating a way that the Mercurian should lie.

Should the Seraph get dissonance? Is the Seraph merely unhappy? Would a triad take any action? (Assume the Seraph is completely open about the situation). Does the Superior of the Seraph matter?
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:41 AM   #2
William
 
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Default Re: Seraphim and "what lies will work"

Merely unhappy. Worse when hearing the Mercurian actually say it.

Obviously, the Seraph will tend to try to think of ways to get into a building like this that don't involve lying. There aren't a lot of them that don't also involve firefights, though.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:46 AM   #3
Rocket Man
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Default Re: Seraphim and "what lies will work"

The first thing that comes to mind: show up in denim with a tool box, knock on the door and say "I understand your heat's out. Mind if I come in?"

No lie involved. Especially if the Seraph has any kind of blue-collar Role.
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:59 PM   #4
Acolyte
 
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Default Re: Seraphim and "what lies will work"

The Seraph suggesting deception as a plan is probably suggesting it only as a last resort, and is not honorbound to keep the group from using the plan if someone else suggests it pre-last-resort stage. This is not dissonant, and a Triad/the Seraph's Superior isn't going to be upset about it. Now, if the Seraph habitually started planning sessions by suggesting such things, it indicates an unhealthy interest in deception and someone might notice. Caveat 2: if a Seraph's allies continually rely on deception as a main tactic, they are putting him in very uncomfortable and potentially dissonant situations, which means they aren't good friends. Depending on the Words those allies serve (and how tight the friendship is), they may not care overmuch, but dragging a Seraph along on deception-heavy missions time and time again is likely to get that Seraph's boss angry with you as well.

Quote:
The first thing that comes to mind: show up in denim with a tool box, knock on the door and say "I understand your heat's out. Mind if I come in?"

No lie involved. Especially if the Seraph has any kind of blue-collar Role.
That's dangerous because the most likely followup to that line is, "Oh, are you the heating repair guys?" which might really put the Seraph in hot water. (Obviously, if he has an appropriate Role he could get away with "I am a repair guy" which would probably be enough--but Tether Security might start asking for badges or calling the company or something, leaving the Seraph in trouble.)
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:34 PM   #5
Archangel Beth
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Default Re: Seraphim and "what lies will work"

Another note about Seraphim and fibs in general: remember that Seraphim of the Wind adore skating on the thin edge of their natures. How True can you get and still get people to do what you're Fast-Talking them into doing?

Heck, angels of the Wind probably routinely bounce ideas off of their Seraphim to see if the Symphony agrees that some hair-brained scheme might actually work! (Or, in the case of certain long-eared Cherubim of the Wind, hare-brained schemes...) And if they don't have a Seraph of their own, they consider kidnapping Judge Seraphim; they tend to have really good resonances for this sort of thing.

...why are people looking at me like that?
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:16 PM   #6
Rocket Man
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Default Re: Seraphim and "what lies will work"

And Acolyte, in keeping with what Beth said about skating on the thin edge, there's the obvious response to "Are you the heating repair guys?" Namely:

"You wouldn't believe how many of these things we've fixed."
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:26 PM   #7
Rocket Man
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Default Re: Seraphim and "what lies will work"

A great text for Seraphim in a crunch, by the way, is Mark Twain's "Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc." There is a scene in the book where Joan and a few of her soldiers come upon an enemy officer who doesn't recognize her in the dark. She proceeds to talk her way past him without telling a single lie -- but the answers she gives are not the ones the officer hears.

My personal favorite is after she tells the officer that she's actually been in Joan's camp. Naturally, he asks for intelligence:

"Was she preparing to break camp?"
"Not when I had my last glimpse of her."
"What was she doing?"
"She was talking quietly with an officer."
"Quietly? Not giving orders?"
"No, talking as quietly as we are now."


By the end of the conversation, she has actually received orders to destroy the bridge that her troops need for their escape. Orders that she intends to follow -- once across the bridge, of course.
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“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking”
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Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger"
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Old 04-24-2012, 06:00 AM   #8
Whitelaughter
 
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Default Re: Seraphim and "what lies will work"

The first Seraphic response should be: "why lie? If we *do* fix the heat, we are in the Tether observing what is going on."
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:45 AM   #9
Matthias Wasser
 
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Default Re: Seraphim and "what lies will work"

I wouldn't say that Seraphim would never give this advice, but I would expect it to happen about as often as the Mercurian would suggest killing the guards.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:48 AM   #10
naraht
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Seraphim and "what lies will work"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archangel Beth View Post
How True can you get and still get people to do what you're Fast-Talking them into doing?
That might be a fun question, what is the reaction of Various Superiors to have a Seraph with Fast-Talking. I think Janus and Marc are probably the least likely to have an issue, and Litheroy (and maybe Dominic) on the other end.
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