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Old 01-13-2021, 12:12 AM   #11
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Unified Combat Skills

No, the Unified Karate (VH) skill includes Karate Art, Karate Combat, and Karate Sport (each of them being a H specialty), so a character who took Unified Karate at DX+3 would have the specialties also at DX+3. Conversely, if a character took the specialty of Karate Sport at DX+4, they could default to Unified Karate (and, therefore, Karate Art and Karate Combat) at DX+2.
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Old 01-13-2021, 10:38 AM   #12
Arcanjo7Sagi
 
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Default Re: Unified Combat Skills

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Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
Action could easily have one melee skill (or even combat skill) and satisfy most movies in the genre.
For me, this why WildCard Skills exist. You don't need to create a new skill for that.
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Old 01-13-2021, 11:57 AM   #13
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Unified Combat Skills

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Originally Posted by Arcanjo7Sagi View Post
For me, this why WildCard Skills exist. You don't need to create a new skill for that.
I agree, and this is why Wildcard Skills costs an arm and a leg. If you want to know every bladed weapon, take Blade! at DX+2 and Weapon Master (Bladed Weapons) and call it a day. If you want to know every form of ranged weapon not powered by muscles, take Shooter! at DX+2 and Gunslinger and call it a day.
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Old 01-13-2021, 01:48 PM   #14
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Unified Combat Skills

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
I agree, and this is why Wildcard Skills costs an arm and a leg. If you want to know every bladed weapon, take Blade! at DX+2 and Weapon Master (Bladed Weapons) and call it a day. If you want to know every form of ranged weapon not powered by muscles, take Shooter! at DX+2 and Gunslinger and call it a day.
One issue here is what sort of utility you get. Part of the idea behind having Melee Weapon (DX/H) is so that a knight can be skilled with maces, polearms, spears (and staves and lances), and swords, as well as variations of these (shortsword, 2h swords, etc) - all of which knights were historically skilled with - without having to pay an arm and a leg (and/or being pushed toward having an incredible DX, particularly considering they'll also want Riding). Using Blade! to have these at DX+2 would cost [48], wouldn't cover things like maces (and staves; indeed, I'm not certain spears count as "blades"), and would have unwanted add-on effects (like making knights highly agile - Acrobatics - and lucky - Wildcard Points - while wielding a bladed weapon). Simply buying Broadsword up to DX+4 [16], Polearm to DX+4 [16] and Axe/Mace to DX+4 [16] would give a character who is at DX+2 or higher in the bulk of the skills considered (I think we only miss out on staff/spear, each of which default to DX+0 from Polearm). More importantly, however, putting all [48] in Broadsword would give us DX+12, yielding a character who is nearly unstoppable in melee so long as he has a sword or balanced club, but bears no resemblance to the generalist knight we wanted.

Again, once you have skill in one weapon skill, unless it's a weird one like Lance, Whip, or perhaps Kusari (or any Force Weapon, seeing as those aren't as easy to come by/improvise), having more is only a small advantage. Admittedly, [+4] to have all weapons may be a bit too cheap, but certainly x3 to cost is far too much. Perhaps making Melee Weapon (VH/DX) would be appropriate, with optional specializations of Axe/Mace (Axe/Mace, 2H Axe/Mace, and both Flail variants at -1), Sword (Knife*, Shortsword, Broadsword, 2H Sword, Force Sword, and maybe the Fencing variants, although a Perk/Technique is probably better there), Poles (Polearm, Spear, Staff, Lance), and Flexible (Kusari, Whip, Force Whip; optionally all at -1), all DX/H. Individual skills could then be taken as optional subspecializations. So now you can build a dedicated duelist with Broadsword at DX+4, a sword specialist with Sword at DX+3, or a knight with Melee Weapon at DX+2, all for the same cost ([16]).

*I've mentioned it before, but I favor putting Reach C weapons into Unarmed.
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:34 PM   #15
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Unified Combat Skills

Well, I disagree, as knights spent decades mastering their skills, so it should cost an arm and a leg. If someone desires a simpler solution though, they should take a Knight! Wildcard Skill, which would cover everything needed for a knight to do their job.
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Old 01-13-2021, 04:35 PM   #16
Arcanjo7Sagi
 
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Default Re: Unified Combat Skills

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
One issue here is what sort of utility you get. Part of the idea behind having Melee Weapon (DX/H) is so that a knight can be skilled with maces, polearms, spears (and staves and lances), and swords, as well as variations of these (shortsword, 2h swords, etc) - all of which knights were historically skilled with
A single skill to cover all above is not realistic at all. Knights and professional warriors trained for since childhood. And they probably didn't have SL 18 in all of them. They probably have one or two primary skills with professional SL (12-14) and some secondary skills with lesser SL to cover other common weapons. Veteran may have higher skills levels, but it is unlikely that they were exceptional in all of them.

The official templates are good start for that, by the way.
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Old 01-13-2021, 05:38 PM   #17
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Unified Combat Skills

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Well, I disagree, as knights spent decades mastering their skills, so it should cost an arm and a leg. If someone desires a simpler solution though, they should take a Knight! Wildcard Skill, which would cover everything needed for a knight to do their job.
They also learn Shield, Soldier, Tactics, Strategy, Leadership, Riding, Animal Handling (Equines), Heraldry, and various courtly skills, which are all going to eat up quite a good deal of their learning time. Honestly, though, the bigger problem is that, due to the way GURPS is constructed, there's a huge benefit to specializing in just one weapon. Historically, someone who opted to do that would certainly have an advantage over a more-generalist knight who spent the same amount of time learning a variety of weapons, but a duelist can get Broadsword to DX+6 with the same number of points it takes the generalist to get each of 3* DX/A skills (Axe/Mace, Broadsword, and Polearm, as above, for the most defaults**) to only DX+2. And it gets worse beyond that, with the duelist getting +3 to skill for every +1 the knight gets. It would probably be more realistic if the cost to increase a skill kept increasing at each level (if it's [1], [2], [4], [8], [14], [22], [32], etc, at +2 to cost per level, the duelist is only at DX+4 - a relative +2 - with [2] left over, which is a bit more palatable), but that would be annoying in play (and unless you gave DX the same treatment, you'd rapidly reach the point where just boosting DX is better).

I'll readily admit essentially having a single "Fightin' (Armed)" skill is a bit unrealistic, particularly with how large of a skill list GURPS has (although a lot of that could certainly benefit from condensing). Then again, certain knowledge skills - Biology, for example - probably cover comparable ranges. However, given the effect is to allow for competitive generalists without preventing specialists, I think it's worth the sacrifice. In theory, anyway - it would certainly need playtesting, and probably wouldn't be appropriate for every game.

*Considering the character would also have Shield and Riding, with 3 Melee Weapon skills it's going to be rather attractive to just have the skills at DX+1 and boost DX for anything further, which is a big part of why there's a bit of a problem here. And that's not even taking into account they're likely to know Brawling and either Wrestling or Judo.
**Arguably, Spear is a better option, as it has an easier default with Staff and I think also has a default with Lance. I opted for Polearm because a knight is more likely to actually be using a polearm weapon than a spear, I feel.
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