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Old 12-13-2020, 03:56 AM   #11
warhorse11h
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Armored starting wizard

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Witelf
Elf wizard, age 20
ST 7, DX 14 (12), IQ 11, MA 12 (10)
Talents: Literacy, Lasso
Spells include: Aid, Dark Vision, Fire, Illusion, Image, Reverse Missiles, Staff II
Language: Elvish
Weapons: Staff II (1d, 1d occult), 5*Lasso (?, adjDX -1)
Attacks and Damage: Punch (1d-4)
Special Ability/Weakness: scared of bugs
Armor: Leather armor stops two hits

Illusion duplicates herself to make multiple lasso attacks per turn.
RAW the tactic of duplicating to make multiple lasso attacks would only be possible if those witnessing this illusion had previously seen Witelf using a lasso. Otherwise, the illusion cannot have that particular talent. If the illusions do use their lasso, they cannot let go of it or the illusion vanishes. Illusions can only have IQ 7 weapons talents unless they are imitating a specific person known by those witnessing the illusion to have weapons talents or unarmed combat talents that are IQ 8 or higher.

Last edited by warhorse11h; 12-13-2020 at 04:00 AM.
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Old 12-13-2020, 05:30 AM   #12
RobW
 
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Default Re: Armored starting wizard

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Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
A 1-hex figure is still a 1-hex figure regardless of its weapon. Or do I now get to ignore the rules of engagement against other 1-hex figures because I'm carrying a spear and they're not? Or trample someone as if I was a 3-hex giant because I've got a pike? Methinks no, and no.
I'm not following as no one is saying an illusion of a pike turns you into a three hex figure for combat purposes. I'm saying a 1-hex illusion can't morph into something that extends across many hexes or even megahexes(use multihex illusion for that) The pikeaxe fighter is on the boundary of acceptable for me, but for me the other examples are easy no's.

If we turn the question around, what limits on the spatial extent of a 1 hex illusion do you suggest?

Last edited by RobW; 12-13-2020 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 12-14-2020, 08:31 PM   #13
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Armored starting wizard

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I'm not following as no one is saying an illusion of a pike turns you into a three hex figure for combat purposes.
But that's exactly what is sounds like, if you require a 3-hex illusion spell for a 1-hex figure with a weapon that has 2 hexes reach. Evey weapon has some amount of reach outside of the hex the illusion is created and standing in.

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If we turn the question around, what limits on the spatial extent of a 1 hex illusion do you suggest?
Exactly the same reach as an identical real, non-illusionary figure would have. I feel to do otherwise is to split hairs, and extend the RAW beyond their intended reach.

I would define any 1-hex figure as a figure that, while standing, fits in 1-hex. Period. Making more of it than that seems to me to be an unneeded complication. But to each their own.
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Old 12-17-2020, 06:04 AM   #14
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Armored starting wizard

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With one-hex illusion spell, the clone's lasso can only be used within the clone's hex
It's fairly clear an illusion can attack adjacent figures.

But I'm sympathetic to a weaker version of this. I don't think one-hex illusions should be allowed to make jab attacks, for instance. Though in RAW it seems they can.
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Old 12-17-2020, 04:27 PM   #15
RobW
 
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Default Re: Armored starting wizard

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Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
It's fairly clear an illusion can attack adjacent figures.
Yes, that seems completely clear. A figure one hex in size, real or illusory, can reach into and interact with adjacent hexes.

I accept my imagination got away with me when I wrote the illusory lasso can only attack within the illusion's hex. It happens :) I was picturing the lasso extending out and around the attacked hexes in a way that is, to me, unlike a sword thrust into an adjacent hex.

I've been convinced an illusory lasso attack into an adjacent hex would be OK.

But a 1-hex illusory cowboy lassoing his opponent across the arena, not for me.

Another perverse example would be a 1-hex illusory archer that ties strings to his arrows. No, the string doesn't mean you can now shoot across the arena.

Last edited by RobW; 12-17-2020 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 12-18-2020, 02:41 AM   #16
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
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I don't think one-hex illusions should be allowed to make jab attacks, for instance. Though in RAW it seems they can.
Hmmmm... illusions aren't stiff and wooden, they should be able to stretch, lunge or reach as far and as much as the figures they are clones of, which would seem to make jab attacks totally reasonable.
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Old 12-18-2020, 02:49 AM   #17
Steve Plambeck
 
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Another perverse example would be a 1-hex illusory archer that ties strings to his arrows. No, the string doesn't mean you can now shoot across the arena.
Gadzooks! Never thought of that! That's so funny I think I'd allow it for comic value. I'd rule if the shot sails past the target, the illusory archer is automatically yanked to his feet. I'd also rule after the first shot, everyone knows it can't be a real archer so it's automatically disbelieved as a free action by anyone who can stop laughing long enough :)
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Old 12-18-2020, 07:03 AM   #18
JimmyPlenty
 
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Default Re: Armored starting wizard

I forget. What was the reasoning behind illusions not being separated? Was it flavor? too powerful? or to stop abuse?
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Old 12-18-2020, 09:06 AM   #19
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I forget. What was the reasoning behind illusions not being separated? Was it flavor? too powerful? or to stop abuse?
Probably too powerful. A one hex petard could ruin your day.
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Old 12-20-2020, 03:21 AM   #20
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Armored starting wizard

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I forget. What was the reasoning behind illusions not being separated? Was it flavor? too powerful? or to stop abuse?
I feel sure it was all three. Practically speaking, it's a necessary limit in order to remain consistent with that other rule against illusions of inanimate objects, which is what an illusion's weapon would otherwise become if it were allowed to be thrown or fired.

I've corrected what I said here in a later post.
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Last edited by Steve Plambeck; 12-24-2020 at 01:02 AM.
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