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Old 02-07-2018, 08:23 PM   #1
FJCestero
 
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Default Ogre Musings

I'm thinking about perhaps maybe submitting an article to Drew & Ogrezine but wanted to get some feedback in case it's just me.

It's basically about the balance between guns and treads on our favorite turing-grade rolling apocalypses.

Now mostly I play the basic scenario with a Mark-III on the orange map. There's a command post that needs killing and the defender has to choose between the weapons killing him now, and the treads that will buy him more time to kill the Ogre later... decisions, decisions.

But on the green maps, or fighting 'open' battles where there's no time/space pressure to force attacks on treads -- it all goes to guns (and past that point the treads just go poof!). For a Mk-III that's 48 attack points to (statistically) destroy one Main and four Secondaries versus the 135 points to strip the treads.

So, are Ogres in general over-treaded? I mean, for non-kill-the-command-post missions, or would it make sense for an Ogre Mark armed like the Three, but having 30-36 treads (and around 80-90 VPs) because it's better balanced for general combat? Even if for no other reason that the few treads make slowing it down that much easier -- thus pulling attacks away from guns.

Would not the ideal General Combat Ogre offer equal reason to attack guns and treads equally and thus have them reach zero at the same time...?

Or is this all just a case of my personal Ogre echo-chamber and I need to get out more?

P.S.: This is still congealing slowly in my brain -- if that wasn't already apparent.
P.P.S.: Hey Drew, it's not that I haven't been trying -- it just took me a while to think of something with potential. Still dunno.
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Old 02-07-2018, 09:05 PM   #2
tomc
 
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Default Re: Ogre Musings

A quick observation: Treads factor into movement, which with guns, determines the effective attack range of the Ogre.

I think it's implied in the design that an Ogre of a particular size needs a certain number of treads to reach a certain speed. So, fewer treads would mean slower movement, less effective range, and less deadly.

Others can (and probably will) crunch the numbers to a fine powder, but that's my gut reaction.
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Old 02-08-2018, 03:24 PM   #3
tbeard1999
 
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Default Re: Ogre Musings

Quote:
Originally Posted by FJCestero View Post
I'm thinking about perhaps maybe submitting an article to Drew & Ogrezine but wanted to get some feedback in case it's just me.

It's basically about the balance between guns and treads on our favorite turing-grade rolling apocalypses.

Now mostly I play the basic scenario with a Mark-III on the orange map. There's a command post that needs killing and the defender has to choose between the weapons killing him now, and the treads that will buy him more time to kill the Ogre later... decisions, decisions.

But on the green maps, or fighting 'open' battles where there's no time/space pressure to force attacks on treads -- it all goes to guns (and past that point the treads just go poof!). For a Mk-III that's 48 attack points to (statistically) destroy one Main and four Secondaries versus the 135 points to strip the treads.

So, are Ogres in general over-treaded? ...

Or is this all just a case of my personal Ogre echo-chamber and I need to get out more?

P.S.: This is still congealing slowly in my brain -- if that wasn't already apparent.
P.P.S.: Hey Drew, it's not that I haven't been trying -- it just took me a while to think of something with potential. Still dunno.
We all probably need to get out more. :D

However, since you have to BOTH kill the Ogre's weapons and kill its treads - it can ram and destroy a CP - does it matter a lot what the balance between the two is? And if you make mobility easier to destroy, don't you have to (a) make weapons harder or (b) reduce the defending force?

EDIT - I just realized that you were talking about GEV type scenarios. In those scenarios, you'd still have to adjust either the difficulty of killing Ogre weapons or the size of the defending force (or both) if you made treads easier to destroy.

Although you do raise an interesting point - the point value of Ogres in the Ogre game presumably bakes in some points for the ram ability and the fact that the defending force has to destroy the Ogre's weapons and mobility to win. Doesn't that suggest that the same formula would overprice Ogres in GEV games, where ramming is far less useful?

Last edited by tbeard1999; 02-08-2018 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 02-08-2018, 06:55 PM   #4
ColBosch
 
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Default Re: Ogre Musings

Ramming may be limited, but Ogres do get the benefit of doubling in Overruns.
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Old 02-08-2018, 07:11 PM   #5
Dave Crowell
 
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Default Re: Ogre Musings

Stripping the treads off an Ogre on the orange map renders its remaining weapons moot as far as its mission objectives if it is out of range of the Command Post. The defender still needs to strip the weapons to achieve a defense victory, but by killing the Ogre's mobility an Ogre victory can be prevented.

My tactic for dealing with a MK III on the orange map is to kill the main battery then concentrate on treads. For a MK V I will still target the main batteries first, but something needs to be done about all those missiles before I can concentrate on treads.

On the green map weapons tend to be more of a danger to leave intact due to scenario victory conditions involving the destruction of roads, bridges, buildings, etc. Even at one hex movement an Ogre can chew up a lot of real estate in a hurry.
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