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Old 10-12-2014, 10:51 AM   #31
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

GEV moves 0312 to destroyed road in 0412 then spends 2 MP to enter intact hex 0413, correct?
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Old 10-12-2014, 04:15 PM   #32
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
GEV moves 0312 to destroyed road in 0412 then spends 2 MP to enter intact hex 0413, correct?
[Map G1 North]

You DO find the fringe cases, don't you? I was thinking a large bridge over a river, which should be relatively straight forward - 1 MP entering the road on the river bridge hex, but no road bonus.

Which I think can be extrapolated to the stream bridge then too. The GEV is not entering the town proper; it's entering the road in the town via the stream bridge. Just because the road is cut in hex 0412 doesn't change the geography of hex 0413.

This presupposes the terrain in the hex where the road is cut can be entered and exited by that unit. On Map S2 North, if the rail was cut in hex 1506, a GEV traveling along the rail (from hex 1405) could not enter the river bridge (hex 1605) on the same turn from hex 1506, as that hex is now considered Forest, and thus the GEV is subject to the risk of Disabling as per Forest terrain rules as well as stopping it's movement for the turn.

Stream bridges may be attacked directly (also cutting the road), but are not damaged by attacks to the adjacent hexes.

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Old 10-12-2014, 05:52 PM   #33
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

I think that 2.03.3 and 2.03.2 indicate that the bridge structure is separable from its surface, in that a unit can cross a bridge without the advantage of a road.

In particular, any unit other than GEV/INF/train is able to cross a railroad bridge even though such a unit gains no advantage from the tracks.

This suggests to me that it is plausible that any unit would be able to cross a road bridge even if they cannot benefit from the road (because it is cut). Roughly, the road crossing the bridge's approaches can be destroyed (removing it's benefit) without undermining the approach or the bridge itself.

[Growing up in the Great Plains, I have frequently seen highway bridges without roads. During construction season, interstates and divided highways will often have "bypasses" which put all traffic onto one side of the highway while the other side is torn up and replaced. During this construction, one will often see bridges with no pavement approaching them that are still usable (and used) by the construction men and equipment.]
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Old 10-12-2014, 09:55 PM   #34
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

13.02 Destruction of bridges. Where a road or railroad crosses a stream hexside, there is a stream bridge with a defense strength of D6. It lies in two hexes and can be attacked by firing at either hex. Fire on both of its hexes can be combined for effect. Only an X result destroys a bridge. If the bridge is destroyed, the road is cut. Place an overlay showing a stream with a downed bridge.

From my reading, I get that the bridge itself needs to be attacked to be destroyed. Attacking the road on either side has no effect on the bridge itself.
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Old 10-12-2014, 10:24 PM   #35
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

Will this need a note in "5.07 ... A bridge hex is like any other road hex. A unit which moves from a road to a non-road hex, or vice versa, is affected by the underlying terrain." to indicate that a road-out hex is not a non-road hex?

I.e. road-out destroys roadness into the hex, but not out of it? A stream bridge is a "roadness" indicator for the hexside, which is independent of road-state in the two connecting hexes.
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Old 10-12-2014, 11:23 PM   #36
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

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Will this need a note in "5.07 ... A bridge hex is like any other road hex. A unit which moves from a road to a non-road hex, or vice versa, is affected by the underlying terrain." to indicate that a road-out hex is not a non-road hex?

I.e. road-out destroys roadness into the hex, but not out of it? A stream bridge is a "roadness" indicator for the hexside, which is independent of road-state in the two connecting hexes.
The only benefit I can see to the hex side bridge is to cross streams. No need to muck up the rules with "bridge is like a road" type clarifications. If one side has a Road Cut and the other doesn't, and the bridge isn't out, then you can cross the bridge, but you wouldn't receive road bonus.

I'm not sure where the confusion is here.
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:08 AM   #37
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

Roads and bridges allow you to ignore underlying terrain features as long as they're intact and you enter the hex on the road/bridge. Previous discussions have agreed that (unrealistic as it may be) a hex's terrain only affects units entering a hex, not exiting it, and hexside terrain only affects units crossing that hexside. Thus the lack of road in one hex does not affect the use of road in another hex as long as you enter the hex along the road (i.e., across a hexside that the road connects to). Additionally, the fact that stream bridges are connected to the road doesn't change that principle; if the bridge is intact you can use it to avoid stopping at the stream, even if the hex on the far side doesn't have intact road (and thus you have to observe the far hex's terrain penalties/restrictions). River bridges are effectively treated as normal road for movement purposes since the road and the bridge are one and the same for destruction purposes - either the road is intact and you can ignore the underlying terrain (water), or it isn't and you can't.

Yes, it's less than realistic, but no more so than the rest of the game mechanics :)
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Old 10-13-2014, 06:13 PM   #38
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

Realisim. Ok, we're talking about a game that plays in miles. There is only so much information that can be relayed on this scale. Yes, there can be damage to an area that is not shown on the map. Conceder a city, how many buildings are in hex? Which ones are damaged from battles that did not affect the hex as a whole? Is there really enough cover for the infantry to hide in?

Too detailed.

Only damage that is enough to affect units are shown. So, if you are in a hex that has a Road Cut marker, then there is not enough road to give a road bonus when entering or leaving. At this scale, the road just isn't there.
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Old 10-13-2014, 07:07 PM   #39
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

So road controls travel into a hex along a road and bridge controls crossing of water. Crossing a bridge from a destroyed road hex is no different from entering along a road from a non-road hex, no?
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Old 10-13-2014, 07:43 PM   #40
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Default Re: Official Rules Update and FAQ (Draft versions 1.01 - June 21)

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So road controls travel into a hex along a road and bridge controls crossing of water. Crossing a bridge from a destroyed road hex is no different from entering along a road from a non-road hex, no?
This is correct. The bridge itself has road on it, so as not to lose road bonus while crossing it. But the road on a stream bridge does not give a road bonus because it is not itself in a hex. Cut the road on either or both sides doesn't negate the fact that the bridge is still there. I hope this explains the answer to your original question.
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