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Old 03-29-2019, 11:28 AM   #1
Gumby Bush
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: CT
Default New Spell: Permanent Spell Arrow

By default, a spell arrow activates once and is gone.

I am wondering what it would take to make a more resilient spell arrow--one I can reuse (e.g., for enchanting a Sai with--I'd just use Cornucopia if it were actual arrows I was interested in). Multiply base cost for the Spell Arrow Enchantment by 100? Anything reasonable will turn out expensive.

One could, I assume, specify whether it was blank or not if one also knew Blank Spell Arrow.

For Cornucopia to make regular Spell Arrows, cost would be 50*(71*P+10P^2) (assuming $1 an energy point up to the appropriate level)=3550P+500P^2 or 32050*P+500P^2 (for used items at $20/energy point after that level). Spell Arrow has a cash cost of 40P+10P^2 in addition to the energy cost of 30P. If we try to make the permanent spell arrow cost the 'average' of what Cornucopia costs:

(355P+50P^2+3205P+50P^2)/2=(4+x)P+P^2
1780+50P=4+x+P
1776+49P=x
so... P=4 gives us x=1972,
P=1 gives x=1825,
x=2000 sounds close enough (what's a third of a work-year at this point?), so that's a cost of 2000*energy cost of eventual spell in the arrow (roughly 20* for the cost, 100* for permanency, I think, so it sounds right from that perspective, too).

Am I thinking about this well? Am I missing anything? Would you just cap the possible energy in a permanent spell arrow at 2 or 3 and say it's 100*usual?
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Old 03-29-2019, 12:23 PM   #2
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: New Spell: Permanent Spell Arrow

A sai isn't even a missile weapon, so Spell Arrow seems a strange place to start. What's your actual goal here? To have a way to carry a spell around on your weapon -- presumably so that it triggers on whatever you hit? To easily change out the enchantment on the weapon?

You could just mount a Spell Stone socket in the hilt.

The easy way is to have your friendly neighborhood mage that's going to be making those Spell Stones for you cast the spell with Delay on the sai. No special gemstones needed. The advantage of a Spell Stone is that it doesn't count as a spell "on" for the caster. The advantage of Delay is that you don't have to Concentrate for a second to activate the effect.

A weapon that just kept on reapplying the same effect without the need for a mage to "reload" it each time is just a regular enchantment.
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Old 03-29-2019, 12:53 PM   #3
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: New Spell: Permanent Spell Arrow

You wouldn't use spell arrow as the base enchantment, you'd just use the normal cost for an item that casts that spell, plus making it self-powered.
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Old 03-29-2019, 01:33 PM   #4
Gumby Bush
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: CT
Default Re: New Spell: Permanent Spell Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
You wouldn't use spell arrow as the base enchantment, you'd just use the normal cost for an item that casts that spell, plus making it self-powered.
By using Power or by using an exclusive Powerstone? The first way is even more expensive than what I was thinking. An exclusive Powerstone would require the casting time of (Blank) Spell Arrow each time it was being reset, which is fine. However, I don't think there's a RAW way to enchant an item with the Spell Arrow spell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
A sai isn't even a missile weapon, so Spell Arrow seems a strange place to start. What's your actual goal here? To have a way to carry a spell around on your weapon -- presumably so that it triggers on whatever you hit? To easily change out the enchantment on the weapon?

You could just mount a Spell Stone socket in the hilt.

The easy way is to have your friendly neighborhood mage that's going to be making those Spell Stones for you cast the spell with Delay on the sai. No special gemstones needed. The advantage of a Spell Stone is that it doesn't count as a spell "on" for the caster. The advantage of Delay is that you don't have to Concentrate for a second to activate the effect.

A weapon that just kept on reapplying the same effect without the need for a mage to "reload" it each time is just a regular enchantment.
A sai can be thrown, hence why I went to Spell Arrow. The initial thought was Staff at range, so I'd be aiming to use this with a Blank Spell Arrow, probably with Speed Spell Arrow, too (a throwing mace made of wood could be a Staff as well. Add returning weapon for a lovely magic boomerang).
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Old 03-29-2019, 01:54 PM   #5
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Default Re: New Spell: Permanent Spell Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby Bush View Post
By using Power or by using an exclusive Powerstone?
Depends how often you want it to be reusable. If you're good with waiting days between uses, an exclusive powerstone will work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby Bush View Post
An exclusive Powerstone would require the casting time of (Blank) Spell Arrow each time it was being reset, which is fine. However, I don't think there's a RAW way to enchant an item with the Spell Arrow spell.
Actually, now I check, there is a canonical way of doing what you want: a missile weapon enchanted with Throw Spell (Magic 129). For throwing weapons, presumably you'd apply it to a launcher.
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Old 03-29-2019, 02:59 PM   #6
Gumby Bush
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: CT
Default Re: New Spell: Permanent Spell Arrow

By RAW, it looks like that'd still only throw one spell:

"There are rumors of enchanted missile weapons
that can throw any spell known to
their wielder, but nothing more
specific is known about them."

(which kind of looks like the authors saying "yes, that would be cool, but it should be super rare.")
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Old 03-29-2019, 03:50 PM   #7
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: New Spell: Permanent Spell Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby Bush View Post
The initial thought was Staff at range
To carry Melee spells to a distance? That is, you want to cast a Melee spell on the sai, throw the sai, and have the spell affect the target? (Hence the transition to Spell Arrow?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Throw Spell
If the sai-wielder can cast his own spells, replacing the usual Missile mechanics with the thrown sai would work. (Close enough for Magic, anyway.)

If the spells are meant to be pre-cast, like Spell Arrow, especially by someone other than the sai-wielder, then there's still a gap. All Throw Spell does is give a spell the Speed/Range penalties instead of its normal class (-1/yard or touch).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby Bush
By RAW, it looks like that'd still only throw one spell
Yes -- but that paragraph also assumes that the spell is chosen ahead of time, when the item is enchanted, and isn't cast as part of the use of the weapon.

I'd probably allow a "loadable" version for the same enchant cost. That is, the archer casts the spell, while the item does the Throw Spell. There's an additional disadvantage built in, as it takes an extra turn for the caster to cast the spell he wants the missile weapon to project, much as if they were casting Throw Spell - Spell. (With the normal item, there's no need for a casting turn. You just Attack, and the spell effect goes along with the ammo.) The "loadable" version would be Concentrate-Ready-Attack-Concentrate-Ready-Attack, rather than Ready-Attack-Ready-Attack. (Or whatever turns you need to reload and ready your weapon of choice, of course. The Throw Spell autopistol could be menacing.)

One that works as the rumored version described -- fires any spell known to the wielder, without the explicit casting step -- I'd ballpark off the top of my head at 12,500 energy (5x the standard version cost, because pentaphilia; also, Beast Speech has an option for a universal instead of single-species item at 4x the base cost. That cost should also make the item appropriately scarce and epic.)

Last edited by Anaraxes; 03-29-2019 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Fix misleading quote for Throw Spell
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Old 03-29-2019, 03:52 PM   #8
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: New Spell: Permanent Spell Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
If the sai-wielder can cast his own spells, that would work. (Close enough for Magic, anyway.)
The enchantment version of throw spell doesn't actually require that. It just applies a fixed effect to every arrow.
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Old 03-29-2019, 04:52 PM   #9
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: New Spell: Permanent Spell Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The enchantment version of throw spell doesn't actually require that. It just applies a fixed effect to every arrow.
Sorry; I intended to say that Throw Spell, only replacing the usual Missile spell with the sai, would be close enough. But my poor editing makes the quoted context very confusing. I'll fix that.
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