Can you use weapon master for Flame Jet/Innate Attack(Beam)?

[LokRobster]

I let half-elves use Power Items in my game. I figured it’s a GM call & I was interpreting the “bard/wizard/cleric/druid” line as “one who has the underlying abilities to cast spells from those departments”.

And it’s more fun ;)

I was envisioning a half-elf scout who Ignites his Flaming Arrows... the bow makes a great Power Item. Of course the Concentrate bit to pause in the shooty action might make the sequence less than optimal, but the aesthetic is nifty.

[ArchonShiva]

Originally Posted by Kromm

In the DFRPG, access to power items is one of the hidden perks of caster templates . . . but if you go to the source, which is GURPS, you'll find this in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers:

Any spellcaster may designate one thing he owns – holy symbol, staff, etc. – as his "power item."

And you'll find this in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 18: Power Items:

Anyone who can cast spells using Bardic Talent, Deathliness, Demonic Attunement, Elemental Influence, Magery, Power Investiture, or any similar enabling advantage may designate a "caster power item."

So there, power items are tied to the ability to cast spells, and specifically the advantage that enables this ability, rather than to specific professions. A DFRPG GM who's looking at using GURPS content will most likely want to allow characters who have Magery but don't use the wizard template to benefit from this.

If Power Items (and the larger ER maximum) in DFRPG are a template Perk, how do custom delvers (DFA14) get access to them with no associated Advantage? It seems to me like they have to be a function of Magery etc.

[Armin]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

If Power Items (and the larger ER maximum) in DFRPG are a template Perk, how do custom delvers (DFA14) get access to them with no associated Advantage? It seems to me like they have to be a function of Magery etc.

There are some things that the templates get that have no associated advantage to provide a linked cost for them. The only examples of these things that I can recall are the higher level limits for some of the leveled advantages (maybe that's all). Access to higher levels might be considered an unusual background (in GURPS), but for the DFRPG templates it's free.

Examples: Animal Friend limited to 4, except Barbarian and Druid can go to 6; Born Entertainer limited to 4, except Bard can go to 6; Born War-Leader is 4, 6 for Knights; and so on.

If everyone is a based on a template, that can be considered a feature, but if you have some folks built without one, there's no cost to even that out.

Perhaps Power Items are another example of such a feature. (ETA: Whoops, badly stated. I meant that perhaps a GM could see Power Items as such a feature.)

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

If Power Items (and the larger ER maximum) in DFRPG are a template Perk, how do custom delvers (DFA14) get access to them with no associated Advantage?

By DFA14 not being a DFRPG supplement?

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by Anthony

By DFA14 not being a DFRPG supplement?

I think he meant p.14 of the DFRPG Adventurers book. That page has a sidebox titled, "Membership Hath Privileges" with a subheading for "Custom Professions." It basically explains the rationale for niche protection and then gives the GM permission to allow exceptions.

In my game, I would certainly tie power items to the enabling spellcasting advantage.

[ArchonShiva]

Originally Posted by Anthony

By DFA14 not being a DFRPG supplement?

DF14 (no A) is not a DFRPG supplement. DFA14 is a page reference in DFRPG Adventurers.

Originally Posted by Armin

There are some things that the templates get that have no associated advantage to provide a linked cost for them. The only examples of these things that I can recall are the higher level limits for some of the leveled advantages (maybe that's all). Access to higher levels might be considered an unusual background (in GURPS), but for the DFRPG templates it's free.

Yes, but custom delvers explicitly do not get those. I think we all agree that a custom delver with Magery 4 should get access to a power item, and a custom delver with ST35 and nothing else on his sheet should not. There has to be a reason for this, and the reason must be Magery. So elves or 5EP casters (Pyramid #113) get power items.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

Yes, but custom delvers explicitly do not get those.

And where is that in the rules?

[GnomesofZurich]

@ Juliansl: I'd be interested in seeing your sheet, if you're willing to share.

From what you've said: Swashbuckler, 20 points spent on Half-Elf template, 5 points spent to upgrade Weapon Master to Jet + Staff. For weapon skills, I'm guessing Innate Attack (Jet) [16] and Staff [4]. Do you only have points from quirks with which to purchase spells, or is your GM allowing you to use some discretionary advantage points? Otherwise you're looking at Create Fire [1]; Ignite Fire [1]; Flame Jet [2]; Shape Fire [1].

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

Yes, but custom delvers explicitly do not get those. I think we all agree that a custom delver with Magery 4 should get access to a power item, and a custom delver with ST35 and nothing else on his sheet should not. There has to be a reason for this, and the reason must be Magery. So elves or 5EP casters (Pyramid #113) get power items.

Custom pretty clearly means custom - it's entirely GM's option what it can and cannot allow, not a set of rules. And power items are explicitly for spell casting, so if ST35 only guy really wants one, who cares? He can't use it for anything at all anyway. Though I suppose a generous GM might let him use it to recharge magically drained fatigue or something.

[Juliansl]

Originally Posted by GnomesofZurich

@ Juliansl: I'd be interested in seeing your sheet, if you're willing to share.

From what you've said: Swashbuckler, 20 points spent on Half-Elf template, 5 points spent to upgrade Weapon Master to Jet + Staff. For weapon skills, I'm guessing Innate Attack (Jet) [16] and Staff [4]. Do you only have points from quirks with which to purchase spells, or is your GM allowing you to use some discretionary advantage points? Otherwise you're looking at Create Fire [1]; Ignite Fire [1]; Flame Jet [2]; Shape Fire [1].

This was a latejoin character so it started with 20 extra xp, and I've earned a bit since, but here's the sheet enjoy.