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01-08-2018, 08:21 PM | #1 |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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TFT Defense
Several folks have suggested some kind of defense capability as a good addition to TFT. In my longest running campaign, we had a passive defense mechanism. (I don’t like parry rolls as they slow the game down). It was designed to allow swashbuckler type characters to be viable in TFT. It was a tad fussy, but it did work. This is my best recollection of how it worked.
We used the standard 3d6 resolution mechanic. I don’t think it would work as well using the d20 system unless you increased the benefit. Figures with any hand weapon talent (including unarmed combat and the staff spell) have a Defense rating (DF). All enemies subtract the target’s adjusted DF from all attacks with hand weapons or bare handed. A figure’s base DF is 1 for each point of DX over 12. Armor seriously degrades DF, however. DX penalties for armor and shields are doubled against DF. So if you have DX 17, your base DF is 5. If you wear leather armor (DX -2) you’d have an adjDF of 1 and an adjDX of 15. Note that in original TFT, armor could be enchanted to stop more hits, but you couldn’t magically reduce its DX penalty. So it was all but impossible to have a high DF if you wore heavy armor/shield. This was an intentional design goal. Figures with Unarmed Combat V add 2 to their adjDF. This replaces the “four dice to hit them in normal combat”. As an aside, this means a figure with UC V and the minimum adjDX will be -6(!) to hit. A 32 point would-be swashbuckler would have ST8, DX14, IQ 10. Talents could be Sword (2), Fencing (3), and 3 more points (saving 2 to get Two Weapons when he gets IQ8). His adjusted DF is 2, so he’ll be a little hard to hit by beginning characters. But against a ST12 DX12(10) IQ8 swordsman with leather, small shield and broadsword, he’ll probably still lose unless he gets some luck shots in. At 36 points, he’s much more viable. His IQ is 11, ST is 10 and DX is 15. DF is 3. He uses a Sabre (Cutlass, 2-2 damage) in each hand. He’s hard to hit, but still fragile. Now, he stands a decent chance against a ST13 DX15(11) IQ8 fighter with chain and large shield (-5 hits), though he struggles with heavier armor. This system allowed swashbuckler type characters to be viable (though perhaps unrealistically so). I’m not advocating it as a TFT system, I’m just sharing it because it worked well in several multi-year campaigns. EDIT - This defense capability could be a separate talent, I suppose. I’d require a DX of 13 (the minimum to get any benefit from it) or higher and an IQ of 10+. Last edited by tbeard1999; 01-09-2018 at 03:13 PM. Reason: Additional comment |
01-08-2018, 08:31 PM | #2 |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: TFT Defense
Another, simpler approach would be to have 3 levels of talent for each hand weapon class - example Sword (2), Expert Sword(2) and Master Sword(2).
Expert talent requires AdjDX 13+ And IQ9 and the base weapon talent as a prerequisite. Anyone attacking an Expert with a hand weapon must roll 4 dice to hit if the Expert is using the appropriate weapon. Master talent requires AdjDX16+ and IQ10 and Expert talent as a prerequisite. Anyone attacking a Master with a hand weapon must roll 5 dice to hit if the Master is using the appropriate weapon. I’d leave Two Weapons as is. I’d make Fencing a 2 point talent but require Expert Sword as a prerequisite. Unarmed Combat will need some work, but perhaps make UC3 an Expert talent, UC4 a Master Talent. Reduce UC5 to 2 points and eliminate the extra die to hit defensive ability. |
01-09-2018, 01:12 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
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Re: TFT Defense
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AdjDX is a problem -because it's not stable. I'd suggest a Fencing Parry talent - DX 12, IQ 12 - once per turn, may attempt a parry at 3D vs AdjDX to reduce the damage by your weapon. Would be restricted to lighter swords. |
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01-09-2018, 07:12 AM | #4 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: TFT Defense
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EDIT - it really should be adjDX14 and 18. I’d calibrated it on a system that replaced additional dice with -3 modifiers. I personally despise parry rolls (didn’t like ‘em in Runequest either). As an uncommon talent, your suggestion might be OK for me. There’s another way to approach it as well. Allow figures to reduce their DX by any amount, and apply this same reduction to all figures attacking them in hand to hand combat. We used this system and it worked pretty well in one short campaign. It will tend to make higher “level” characters much harder to kill by the faceless hordes, but I considered that a Good Thing. I’d want to play test it hard, though. With the 3d6 bell curve, relatively small adjustments to DX can dramatically change the hit probability. The reason the defense rule I started the thread with worked was that it was designed to do one thing and while a bit crunchy, it did that one thing very well. Last edited by tbeard1999; 01-09-2018 at 03:15 PM. |
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01-09-2018, 10:22 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: TFT Defense
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With two weapons talent, a figure can parry with one or both swords, stopping 2 or 4 hits respectively. Of course, the figure loses his attack if he parries. So allow a "parry/riposte" - you stop 2 points of damage, but are at -2 DX on your attack. Absorbing damage more or less produces the right result - it degrades smaller weapons far more than larger weapons. You could grant the "parry/ripost" ability as part of Sword or Fencing talents. Or, make it a separate talent. It's clean and simple. It also affects smaller weapons significantly. And the modifications are handled solely by the player, which keeps the game moving. |
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01-09-2018, 10:36 AM | #6 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Columbia, Maryland
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Re: TFT Defense
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01-09-2018, 10:46 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: TFT Defense
Treating a parry as a sort of shield is also a totally valid approach - there are lots of examples in the game where you play with either the chance of striking a hit or the damage done on a hit. The devil is in the details. The correct recipe is approximately 1 pt DX penalty for 1 point of automatic damage reduction that applies to all attacks aimed at you. If there is a chance the damage reduction doesn't work (i.e., you have to succeed at a roll for it to function) then the damage reduction should go up, so that its 'expected value' remains about the same.
Thus, in the house rule I use, parrying imposes a 1 die penalty (equivalent to a 3.5 pt DX reduction) and requires a roll to gain that benefit. Thus, it should be worth twice the DX penalty, which strictly speaking should be 7, but is close to 3x the standard 'block' protection for a sword (2, according to the Two Weapons talent). So, in my rule you get 3x the block protection, or 3 for dagger or buckler, 6 for a large shield or sword, and 9 for a tower shield (which I also apply to heavy two handed weapons, like greatswords or pole weapons). This has the same value in the DX/damage/protection arms race as the exchange of 2 DX points for an automatic 2 points of protection. So, I would say both rules (or other equivalents) are all within the design space of the rest of the combat system, and which one you prefer is just a matter of taste. |
01-09-2018, 10:59 AM | #8 | ||
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: TFT Defense
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Melee is apparently designed to simulate the "heavy" style. I posited that it may not be possible to cover both types of fighting in a single, *simple* game. Then I got to thinking how to do it in the most low-footprint way. If the typical combatant is a high DX figure using a light weapon (say a cutless or rapier), then the parry/riposte rule becomes a fair representation that plays quickly. Maybe. I'd want to test it thoroughly. Stopping 2 hits and DX -2 may not be the correct settings. Already, I'm musing that maybe the DX penalty should be -3. If it's -2, then you get the equivalent of leather armor (in melee combat anyhow) with no reduction in movement or for other DX activities. Or is the proper comparison to shields, not armor? A large shield stops 2 points of damage and reduces DX by 1. The parry/riposte ability is (agreeably) inferior to that. |
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