Heavy crushing/smashing weapons: Why use them?

[Edges]

Plus, they're easy to make/improvise.

[trooper6]

Why is cheap awesome...besides being cheap? You can add lots of those extras to quality. Balanced and Fine...maybe even ornate. Nice!

[Carlos]

Originally Posted by Maz

1) Some armour protect better against cutting than crushing

That's right. Some armors give more protection against cutting than crushing. However, this is just a little diference like two or three extra DR to cutting, which is nothing if you think that the cutting attacks will have a +50% extra damage.

Originally Posted by Maz

2) Crushing does more knockback

Ok, but I don't think that's really great to throw away your opponent one or two yards back. The cutting's damage modifier is better than knockback because it's deadlier.

Originally Posted by Maz

3) Crushing does more blunt trauma

Yes, but the +50% extra damage still overpower the blunt trauma damage and not all armors are flexible.

Originally Posted by Maz

4) When you hit people in the skull, crushing is just as good as cutting (x4)

Yes. Any attack on the skull is x4, even a punch or a kick!

Originally Posted by Maz

5) Crushing does more damage against skeletons and liche's.

I didn't know that on GURPS. Ok, but all the creatures in the world takes more damage from a cutting weapon than smashing weapons.

Originally Posted by Maz

6) A heavier weapons means more weapons will have to roll against breaking if they parry it (or might not be able to at all).

Maul = 12 lbs.
Great Axe = 8 lbs.

The Maul is heavier than the Great Axe, but the difference is not THAT great.

[mlangsdorf]

The difference between a Maul and a Great Axe isn't that large in absolute terms, but the game effects are crucial. A Great Axe can only break short swords, hatchets, knives, and fencing weapons. A Maul can break all of those and spears, axes, staffs, and broadswords. That's a really significant difference, moving from "weapons people don't normally use" to "common weapons".

A great axe doesn't do more damage if it always gets parried. A maul that breaks the foe's weapon is more likely to do damage on the next hit.

[Landwalker]

Originally Posted by Carlos

The Maul is heavier than the Great Axe, but the difference is not THAT great.

That's actually a pretty significant difference. For purposes of breakage, it means that a Maul has the chance to break all of the following weapons that a Great Axe doesn't:

Axe, Broadsword (and Thrusting Broadsword), Small Mace, Pick, Light Club, Cavalry Saber, Quarterstaff, Spear, Rapier, Small Axe, Small Round Mace, Hook Sword, Backsword, Mensurschlager, Bokken, Estoc, Jian, Longsword, Edged Rapier, Late Katana, and Falchion.

[Landwalker]

Follow-up: Of course, here's the question I really want to know the answer to:

Why would any character use one of the ‡ Two-handed Axe/Mace weapons ("THAMs") instead of the Dueling Polearms from Martial Arts?

("Not having access to Martial Arts" isn't a valid reason.)

Both groups of weapons are cheap—the most expensive, the Dueling Halberd, is $120, versus the $100 for a Great Axe/Warhammer, a Dueling Bill, or a Dueling Pollaxe and $80 for a Maul or Dueling Glaive.

Both groups of weapons deal comparable damage—a Dueling Halberd gets Sw+4 cut and Sw+3 imp or cr (if you replace the pick with a hammer), which puts it right in line with the Maul, Great Axe, and Warhammer (combined). The Dueling Poleaxe is right alongside it at sw+3 cut and sw+3 cr, again putting it on par with the THAM weapons, while the Dueling Bill (sw+2 cut / thr+3 imp / thr-1 cr) and Dueling Glaive (sw+2 cut / thr+3 imp) are close behind.

Both groups of weapons have comparable weights—the heaviest polearm is the 10-pound Dueling Halberd, so the 12-pound Maul has a slight advantage there (in that it can break 4-pound weapons, most notably the quarterstaff and the axe). The Dueling Poleaxe has the same 8-pound weight as the Great Axe. Dueling Glaives and Bills are only six pounds, putting them just behind the Warhammer and the lightest of the bunch. Still, pretty close overall.

Both groups of weapons have comparable reach and parry—pretty much all of the weapons in both groups are Reach 1,2* and Parry 0U, but the Dueling Polearms have the edge here due to their thrust options, which have Parry 0.

So what's the only significant difference?—Dueling Polearms are single-dagger Min ST weapons, while THAMs are double-dagger, and becoming unready after an attack is a brutal, brutal disadvantage. THAMs can only attack every other turn. THAMs can't use the Rapid Recovery option from Extra Effort to attack and parry in the same turn. In order to use a THAM with the same "readiness" efficacy as a Dueling Polearm, you have to have at least ST 18. But even if you do have ST 18 (or 20 for a Maul), there's still no compelling reason why you shouldn't just take that ST 18-20 and use it to swing around a Dueling Polearm, and you can be swinging around that Dueling Polearm much, much earlier in the ST progression just as well.

So, the real question is: Why in the world, from a mechanical standpoint, would anybody pick a THAM over a Dueling Polearm?

[Ragitsu]

Originally Posted by Carlos

Ok, but I don't think that's really great to throw away your opponent one or two yards back. The cutting's damage modifier is better than knockback because it's deadlier.

There are some downsides, to be sure, but you can keep a deadly enemy back in order to free some room, or knock an enemy off an edge.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Landwalker

So, the real question is: Why in the world, from a mechanical standpoint, would anybody pick a THAM over a Dueling Polearm?

Because they do more damage?

I know, I know; this is not the fact in the Basic Set or Martial Arts. To be frank, that is an error that has but recently (with playtesting) been discovered.

Cabaret Chicks on Ice will provide.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Landwalker

So, the real question is: Why in the world, from a mechanical standpoint, would anybody pick a THAM over a Dueling Polearm?

Low-Tech will give them a damage bump apparently, and warhammers at least do impaling damage.

[Ragitsu]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Cabaret Chicks on Ice will provide.

That's a pretty vague reference.