Identification rolls for mundane foes

[Michael Thayne]

One odd thing I noticed about DFRPG: it's not clear what skill you roll against to identify mundane foes. In some cases, this probably shouldn't be necessary—it's explicitly noted that no roll is required to know about troll weaknesses, for example—but the fluff also implies that lots of people don't know the difference between hobgoblins and orcs, and the ranks of "mundane" monsters includes horde pygmies, rock mites, and throttlers, which don't seem likely to qualify as "common knowledge". So how do you handle them?

[Harald387]

Heraldry for humanoids and Naturalist for weird beasties (like rock mites and throttlers); Occultism for TRULY weird beasties. See 'Recognition' on DFRPG Monsters p.4 for further details.

[Black Leviathan]

I'm not a big fan of the assumption that all people know about Trolls. The character I'm playing now comes from a vastly different part of the world and it makes sense that I wouldn't need to roll to know facts about Ogres or or their culture because it's my culture, but if I've encountered a troll it was a radically different breed than the ones inhabiting the lands I'm in now. Likewise if we travel to the Ogre Islands I wouldn't expect them to know much about fighting Kenku. I get that Dungeon Fantasy is mean't to follow that tropey D&D world but the GM should still have some latitude to apply common sense.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

I get that Dungeon Fantasy is mean't to follow that tropey D&D world but the GM should still have some latitude to apply common sense.

I don't see why the GM wouldn't have such latitude. Rule Zero exists for a reason.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Harald387

Heraldry for humanoids and Naturalist for weird beasties (like rock mites and throttlers); Occultism for TRULY weird beasties. See 'Recognition' on DFRPG Monsters p.4 for further details.

That section says you can use Heraldry to recognize "organized, basically mundane foes... by their mark". But what if a goblin-kin legion has all kinds of goblin-kin marching under the same banner? I can definitely see Occultism for certain "mundane" threats, like werewolves, since it's explicitly a catch-all for things not covered by other skills, but Naturalist for rock mites and throttlers seems wrong. I might use Hidden Lore (Elementals) at -5 for rock mites, by analogy to the rules for identifying corpse golems. Hidden Lore (Spirits) might make sense for throttlers.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Naturalist for rock mites and throttlers seems wrong.

Naturalist is not "things that are mundane in our world", it's "things that are mundane in the campaign world".

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Naturalist is not "things that are mundane in our world", it's "things that are mundane in the campaign world".

Except it's not. Canonically it's for "giant, dire, and hybrid animals... and for monstrous plants, fungi, and slimes". DFRPG seems pretty firm that dire animals are considered unnatural even in-setting. On the other hand, the only sapient beings Naturalist can canonically identify are sapient plants. It seems to primarily be the skill of identifying non-sapient living things.

[tbone]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

I can definitely see Occultism for certain "mundane" threats, like werewolves, since it's explicitly a catch-all for things not covered by other skills, but Naturalist for rock mites and throttlers seems wrong.

I, too, think there's an odd gap, where technically mundane - but bizarre and not commonplace - monsters are concerned. Rock mites, slimes, gargoyles, throttlers, bizarre underground races and beasties. Tossing these under Naturalist means that the delver who goes toe-to-toe against these rare horrors has no more knowledge of them than the above-ground, village naturalist who would never go near such a dungeon.

I really like the idea of a skill Unnaturalist, like Naturalist but dealing with the weird stuff, and serving to catch all the creatures that don't easily fall under an existing identification skill. (The drawback that I don't like: There are already more than enough skills in the game. : / )

[Not]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

One odd thing I noticed about DFRPG: it's not clear what skill you roll against to identify mundane foes. In some cases, this probably shouldn't be necessary—it's explicitly noted that no roll is required to know about troll weaknesses, for example—but the fluff also implies that lots of people don't know the difference between hobgoblins and orcs, and the ranks of "mundane" monsters includes horde pygmies, rock mites, and throttlers, which don't seem likely to qualify as "common knowledge". So how do you handle them?

Isn't this what IQ rolls are for? Alternatively, create an Area Knowledge or Survival specialty for dungeons.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

I'm not a big fan of the assumption that all people know about Trolls. The character I'm playing now comes from a vastly different part of the world and it makes sense that I wouldn't need to roll to know facts about Ogres or or their culture because it's my culture, but if I've encountered a troll it was a radically different breed than the ones inhabiting the lands I'm in now.

I believe your character has a Social Stigma (Ignorant? Uneducated? I forget which one) - although it might be rolled up into a bigger social stigma of just being Foreign as Heck (Outsider, etc). You lack the local Cultural Familiarity, and you lack "common knowledge" about things that differ between the two parts of the world; people will notice.