Realistic ? Cavalry (lance) charge?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Plane

I'm not totally sure why you still get a +1 bonus when using a 'slip' to move forward while dodging though, since that should give you LESS time.

Because timing is an issue for both fighters, not just the defender.

Barring ranged attacks (against which the only permitted "retreat option" is diving flat), there's no such thing as an attack that's equally effective at every point along the line of attack. People often believe that a linear punch (cross, straight, or jab), lance, rapier, or spear thrust, or other direct thrusting attack works that way ("If he backs up, it'll just continue until it hits him!" or "If he moves toward it, he'll walk right into it!"), but it doesn't. These things have a point of aim at which momentum will hopefully be at its maximum, and not being at that point of aim is a good way not to get hit, either because you aren't there when the thrust ends or because you're encountering the thrust before or after it develops maximum momentum, and thus have a better chance of evading, redirecting, or stopping it.

Stepping away gives the defender the most time to not be at the point of aim, which is why the bonus is largest. Stepping into an attack's "preparation" – inside the windup of a swung weapon or less-linear thrust like a roundhouse punch, past the point of a linear thrust – is also effective. Boxers, muay thai players, etc. really do this; historically, so did fencers, but modern rules make it less of an option.

This is true even of lances. Outside of Hollywood, lancers don't point the lance straight ahead, hope for the best, and keep on charging until they hit someone. They pick a target, adjust to hit that target, and thus generally strike at an angle, meaning there's an arc to get inside of if you're willing to risk it.

Obviously, the defender can mis-time things and walk right into the attack. That's what a failed defense roll represents in this case. But usually, moving in any direction is better than just standing pat and hoping you can evade an attack by a hair (i.e., not trying any retreat option).

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

(all three Rear hexes are occupied)

Minor (but potentially important) quibble - the character only has one Rear Hex. The back-left and back-right are actually Side Hexes, and Retreating into one of those is a Sideslip, for +2. The front-left, front-center, and front-right are all Front Hexes, and "Retreating" into one of those is good for a +1.

But, yes, the character's Rear and Side Hexes are probably all occupied if he's in formation.

Originally Posted by Kromm

This is true even of lances. Outside of Hollywood, lancers don't point the lance straight ahead, hope for the best, and keep on charging until they hit someone. They pick a target, adjust to hit that target, and thus generally strike at an angle, meaning there's an arc to get inside of if you're willing to risk it.

I was under the assumption the lancer could adjust their "aim" fairly readily, such that they'd be able to shift it if they see the target lunging back (unlike a normal spearman, who not only has a set ideal distance of impact but is actively thrusting, giving him far less ability to shift his aim). I could see how that may not be the case if the lancer needs to brace for impact, but in that case it seems like the attack would be easier to see coming - that is, it would have to be a Telegraphic Attack. Does that seem appropriate to you? Telegraphic Attack would certainly improve things for the defender in a one-on-one fight - if we give the full +3 for Retreat, a typical infantryman at Light Encumbrance would be at (8-1(encumbrance)-1(height)+3(retreat))=9 to Dodge, giving him around a 55% chance to survive an attack by a lancer with effective skill 12 (assuming any hit means failing to survive, which isn't quite right but whatever). With a Telegraphic Attack, this is instead around 65%. In a formation, the infantryman is stuck at Dodge 6 (Dodge 7 if he breaks formation for a Slip forward). That's only a 33% (38% with Slip) chance to survive normally, and interestingly telegraphic the attack makes the lancer more likely to take out his target, as there's only a 27% (actually around 39% with Slip) chance to survive.

[Tomsdad]

For me it's not so much the lance can't be moved once the attack is started and your target is either in it's set path or not. As Kromm points out lances can be adjusted and moved and attacks can account for moving opponents and so on. Setting yourself for the impact might limit you a bit but a lance is usual pretty long enough only needing a small adjustment at your end to more the tip enough to adjust the attack. It's more if the charging lancer is moving at speed he has to get the tip of his lance and his target to meet in the way he intended all while he's also traveling at speed, and unless he's free to stop he's going to loose that opportunity pretty quickly.

Cavalry as general rule didn't what to be stopped in the middle of infantry as they will likely be outnumbered and surrounded and unhorsed. Staying mobile is a big advantage




(So OK GURPS plays out each combatant moving a set number of hexes at a time, but in reality it not move 9 yards and stop while someone else then moves it everyone moving all the time)

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Minor (but potentially important) quibble - the character only has one Rear Hex. The back-left and back-right are actually Side Hexes, and Retreating into one of those is a Sideslip, for +2. The front-left, front-center, and front-right are all Front Hexes, and "Retreating" into one of those is good for a +1.

Hopefully someone with more ready access to the relevant Books can double check me, but I think the retreat options are defined not by Front/Side/Rear but by closing/maintaining/opening distance. I.e. if you are being attacked by an opponent directly in front of you, moving directly forward is a Slip, to either of the front corner hexes is a Sideslip, and the side and rear hexes are all Retreat.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Hopefully someone with more ready access to the relevant Books can double check me, but I think the retreat options are defined not by Front/Side/Rear but by closing/maintaining/opening distance. I.e. if you are being attacked by an opponent directly in front of you, moving directly forward is a Slip, to either of the front corner hexes is a Sideslip, and the side and rear hexes are all Retreat.

Yes, exactly.

Retreat, Basic pg 377:
To exercise this option, you must move away from your attacker: at least one yard, but not more than 1/10 your Move – exactly as for a step (see Step, p. 368).

Sideslip, Martial Arts pg 124:
In tactical combat, you may move into any adjacent hex that’s the same distance from your attacker as your starting hex.

Slip, Martial Arts pg 124:
In tactical combat, you may step into any adjacent hex that’s closer to your assailant than your starting hex.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Yes, exactly.

Retreat, Basic pg 377:
To exercise this option, you must move away from your attacker: at least one yard, but not more than 1/10 your Move – exactly as for a step (see Step, p. 368).

Sideslip, Martial Arts pg 124:
In tactical combat, you may move into any adjacent hex that’s the same distance from your attacker as your starting hex.

Slip, Martial Arts pg 124:
In tactical combat, you may step into any adjacent hex that’s closer to your assailant than your starting hex.

Thank you.

One upshot: a character with Peripheral Vision (or even better, 360 Degree Vision) can run away very well.