GURPS Powers: Enhanced Senses

[Arcanjo7Sagi]

Originally Posted by whswhs

* Matter is a legitimate category if Energy is a legitimate category; the two have roughly comparable extent.

* There are in fact far too many categories to fit into the four level scheme in the Basic Set. Consider: You could locate me with Detect Matter, Detect Organic Matter, Detect Living Matter, Detect Multicellular Living Matter, Detect Animal, Detect Vertebrate, Detect Air-Breathing Vertebrate, Detect Mammal, Detect Placental, Detect Primate, Detect Human, Detect Male Human, and narrower categories. That's way more than four, and really Detect Male Human can't be called "rare," so you're actually talking about three. So some sets of them are on the same level. And if that's true, then you can have Detect Matter be on the same level as Detect Life or Detect Minerals, because things being on the same level is unavoidable, and because there isn't any higher level to put it on.

Hmm. That's make sense.

Well, the first thing that came to mind was to extend for a possible fifth level (maybe 40 points? I don't know), but on the other hand, this would not solve the problem because it would always be possible to exploit new categories and having thousands of categories wouldn't be a nice thing. So, ok, let's keep the 4 categories this way then. You are right, I guess.

Originally Posted by whswhs

* The idea that a higher-level Detect can tell you anything whatever about an object that falls within its purview looks to me to be an oversimplification. Say you have Detect Organic Matter. I take you to a museum with an insect collection. Does your ability to detect matter let you know that this insect in this case is a viceroy butterfly rather than a monarch butterfly? Or is that something you can know only if you have Biology (Entomology) in your skills list, and have enough analytical ability to discern the microanatomical species traits of the two?

Oh, sorry. I was assuming that the character must have the proper skill to understand what he or she is analyzing (Then the test result would be a combination of the effects of the advantage and the character's skill). Something similar to a scientist using a proper technological divice in some stories, I guess. But maybe I'm overestimating the effects of the Analysing enhancement.

PS: As aways, sorry for any english mistakes. Man, I must put this in my signature. =P

[Jonas]

So glancing over both this thread and the preview, issues with inconsistent rules aside*, what is the overall impression? Does it add new things or is it just worked examples of how to combine existing (dis)advantages into packages that do various things like X-ray vision or Sense Car Keys?


*Its tradition after all. :P

[Arcanjo7Sagi]

Originally Posted by Jonas

So glancing over both this thread and the preview, issues with inconsistent rules aside*, what is the overall impression? Does it add new things or is it just worked examples of how to combine existing (dis)advantages into packages that do various things like X-ray vision or Sense Car Keys?


*Its tradition after all. :P

Well, personally, I liked it and I do not regret having bought. There are some new nice things, yes. Maybe nothing OMG, but, again, I liked very much the overall product.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Arcanjo7Sagi

As aways, sorry for any english mistakes. Man, I must put this in my signature.

You really don't need to apologize for your English. I'm a native English speaker and a professional copy editor, and I've yet to be held up by anything you've written. We do have a couple of people here whose English usage sometimes makes me stop, either because I was distracted from what they were saying by their language, or because I simply didn't know what they meant—but, ironically, they're native English speakers. What you write isn't difficult at that level; it succeeds in communicating what you mean.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

But Detect Matter will. Dead sheep being made of Matter. Machines are also made of matter, as are Living Beings. This is why Matter looks too broad a category.

That just takes you back to "There's a hundred pounds of meat over there.". It will not tell you if it's sheep or if it's alive or dead.

Detect (and Analyze) Matter will not tell you anything and everything about any and every material object.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

But Detect Matter will. Dead sheep being made of Matter. Machines are also made of matter, as are Living Beings. This is why Matter looks too broad a category.

Surely it will detect a dead sheep, but will it identify that it is a dead sheep?

Here is a man born in 10 A.D. who has been granted Detect Metal by the gods. He is confronted with a bulldozer, an automatic rifle, a drill press, a metal slide rule, and a subcritical mass of plutonium. Does his Detect Metal tell him what any of them are? Does it let him operate them? Does it even tell him that the plutonium is toxic and he had better not handle it?

If you want to use Detect to represent what Kromm calls Extended Senses, I think that you have to treat it as limited to a particular modality. It detects matter because matter has mass, and it responds to the mass, and shows you what can be learned from the distribution of mass. Or it detects living organisms because they have metabolisms, and it can track metabolic processes—so, for example, with a good roll or with Analyzing, it could track what specific areas in the brain are most active, and give you a bonus to Psychology comparable to have neural imaging running, but you couldn't actually say, "I have Detect Life, so I know that Fred is thinking about whether he's going to get promoted at his next job review," not even if you argue that only a living organism would be thinking about job promotions. Detect is not omniscience.

In any case, as I've said before, if you could make the ability we're discussing work the way Enhanced Senses specifies by changing the wording of the Detect, then the issue seems to be purely semantic. Or are you saying either that there is no way in GURPS to represent a Rigellian's "sense of perception" or that it can be done better with some advantage other than Detect? Because both of those strike me as less plausible.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

That just takes you back to "There's a hundred pounds of meat over there.". It will not tell you if it's sheep or if it's alive or dead.

Detect (and Analyze) Matter will not tell you anything and everything about any and every material object.

That's your opinion and it conflicts with the quotes from Kromm.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

That's your opinion and it conflicts with the quotes from Kromm.

Kromm did read this manuscript in draft, you know, and he and I discussed the gravitic senses more than once. So you might have to suppose either that Kromm is in conflict with himself or that you're misunderstanding him.

GURPS is a game system; it's not holy writ. Our goal is to find a way of reading the rules that results in playability and that lets us represent character abilities. How would you represent Rigellian-style mass perception, if not with Detect?

[Irioth]

Let's assume there are genetically-enginereed characters (say a high-powered TL 12 bioroid type) who are genetically-enginereed to have their senses enhanced to the cutting edge of biological possibilities.

For Vision they would have Eagle Eyes, Infrared Sight, Night Sight (level 2), Thermal Sense, Ultraviolet Sight, and Tetrachromatism. How is this combo supposed to be priced (alternative ability for the two Infravision versions or a higher-priced, unified version ?) and which bonuses stack ? It seems to me this would get very close to a Biological version of Omnivision/Hyperspectral Vision (basic version, without the two band extensions), which the supplement unfortunately lacks.

For Hearing they would have Hunting Sonar (both air and water versions), Analytical Hearing, Augmented Pinnae, Infrasonic Hearing, and Ultrasonic Hearing. How is the stack of the sonar versions supposed to be priced ? Alternative ability or a unified version with Universal ? Obviously the Parabolic Hearing component of Augmented Pinnae makes the one of Infrasonic Hearing redundant.

Other Biological enhanced senses would include Tactile Imaging, Analytical Smell, Analytical Taste, Accelerometer, Long-Range Smell, Polarization Detection, Universal Smell, Lateral Line, Sensory Hairs, Magnetic Field Sense, Active Electroreception, and Passive Electroreception. How stacked different versions of the same advantage would be priced ?

To my bafflement, no Biological version of Protected Sense was included, except weaker Perk versions (Robust Sense) that don't really do an adequate job, especially to protect against long-term sensory impairment. This makes little sense to me, since I can easily see ways of justifying a genegineered version of this advantage, such as nictating membranes and regenerative abilities applied to senses that nullify long-term sensory impairment. I find it just as unjustified there is no Biological version of 3d Spatial Sense and Perfect Balance since such abilities seem well within the purview of optimized biological senses.

It also seems to me neurological tinkering should be able to provide pretty much all Hypercognition powers as innate neurodiversity abilities to genegineered characters. This would include Archer's Trance, Battle Arc, Darksense, Diagnostic Scan, Object Reading, Thought Tracking, Threat Detection, Truth Sense, Stop Motion, and Profiling senses. Also Reality Testing only if it would be relevant to the setting (i.e. it includes Mental Illusion attacks to defend against).

I'm doubtful Cutaneous Chemical Sense, Blood Taste, and Immune Spectrum Detection are worth the effort to have, whileas an additional set of water-based enhanced senses may be worthwhile if the bioroids have Gills or Oxygen Storage. Maybe Blood Taste may be useful enough in combination with Diagnostic Scan to provide the bioroids with a set of innate diagnostic sensors.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Irioth

Let's assume there are genetically-enginereed characters (say a high-powered TL 12 bioroid type) who are genetically-enginereed to have their senses enhanced to the very cutting-edge of biological possibilities.

For Vision they should have Eagle Eyes, Infrared Sight, Night Sight (level 2), Thermal Sense, Ultraviolet Sight, and Tetrachromatism. How is this combo supposed to be priced (alternative ability for the two Infravision versions or a higher-priced, unified version ?) and which bonuses stack ? It seems to me this would get reasonably very close to a biological version of Omnivision/Hyperspectral Vision (basic version, without the two band extensions), which the supplement unfortunately lacks.

TL12? Hyperspectral Vision is available (Bio-tech page 60).