Gadget limiations and other limitations

[starslayer]

I have an interesting question about gadget limitations on advantages that are already limited.

Lets take the example of Iron Man (In theory he could also be done by making his suit an ally, and that would be my desired approach since the suit by itself seems to get almost as much screen time as tony stark does, has a fully intelligent AI loaded within it, and in theory if fighting someone with 'combat time' hacking abilities could be attacked mentally, but for this exercise lets go with the PC building iron man is doing so via a pure advantage).

Iron man suit (SM 0, DR 60, can be stolen, does work for enemy, assorted other sundry problems) -80%


Advantages covered by iron man suit:
[275] DR 50 (+10% switchable [+80% hardened && Costs 10 energy+Limited duration -80%])
[75]HP +25
[75]Regeneration extreme (Costs 10 energy -50%)
[75]Energy reserve 125 (Special recharge, Suit abilities only -80%)

So lets say that all of the advantages inside the suit add up to 500 CP

Now we apply the gadget limitation-80%: 100 points final cost for the Iron Man suit.

Is this right?

[Walrus]

Actually, no. Gadget Limitation is just like any other limitation, not like Alternate Ability. So it stacks additively or multiplicatively (your choice) with any other modifiers on each trait.
And you can't add limitations to Meta-Traits which include other limited traits.

However, with certain GM permission even such build is possible, see more in Power-Ups 8: Limitations.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by starslayer

I have an interesting question about gadget limitations on advantages that are already limited.

Lets take the example of Iron Man (In theory he could also be done by making his suit an ally, and that would be my desired approach since the suit by itself seems to get almost as much screen time as tony stark does, has a fully intelligent AI loaded within it, and in theory if fighting someone with 'combat time' hacking abilities could be attacked mentally, but for this exercise lets go with the PC building iron man is doing so via a pure advantage).

Iron man suit (SM 0, DR 60, can be stolen, does work for enemy, assorted other sundry problems) -80%


Advantages covered by iron man suit:
[275] DR 50 (+10% switchable [+80% hardened && Costs 10 energy+Limited duration -80%])
[75]HP +25
[75]Regeneration extreme (Costs 10 energy -50%)
[75]Energy reserve 125 (Special recharge, Suit abilities only -80%)

So lets say that all of the advantages inside the suit add up to 500 CP

Now we apply the gadget limitation-80%: 100 points final cost for the Iron Man suit.

Is this right?

I assume you are asking do gadget limitations allow you to bypass the -80% disadvantage cap? No.

Some of those individual components look iffy too. I'd have to check the rules for the switchable/limited duration combo, it may be legal but I expect it reduces the duration to something utterly useless. And there's no *way* you are getting -80% for an energy reserve for suit abilities only. There's an argument to be made that limitations on what you can use an energy reserve for are always -0%, and I'm certainly not going to let you claim a big limitation for what is effectively "only on almost all of my powers".

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I assume you are asking do gadget limitations allow you to bypass the -80% disadvantage cap? No.

Some of those individual components look iffy too. I'd have to check the rules for the switchable/limited duration combo, it may be legal but I expect it reduces the duration to something utterly useless. And there's no *way* you are getting -80% for an energy reserve for suit abilities only. There's an argument to be made that limitations on what you can use an energy reserve for are always -0%, and I'm certainly not going to let you claim a big limitation for what is effectively "only on almost all of my powers".

See gurps supers for RAW examples of switchable on advantages with a limited 'overdrive' mode like hardened+costs FP. It has no effect on duration (1 minute per activation)

Special recharge is -70% only for specific abilities is -10%, again RAW.

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by Walrus

Actually, no. Gadget Limitation is just like any other limitation, not like Alternate Ability. So it stacks additively or multiplicatively (your choice) with any other modifiers on each trait.
And you can't add limitations to Meta-Traits which include other limited traits.

However, with certain GM permission even such build is possible, see more in Power-Ups 8: Limitations.

That's unfortunate- I was sure it was counted separately like alternate ability. Especially with something like 'internal battery that requires special recharge' it basically makes gadget limitations 'worthless' (since your already at -80% with special recharge and only for powering abilities).

It basically means that if you want suit/device power suites that are more complicated then 'gives you passive advantages' (IE- holding my gadget rifle gives me a 6d innate attack) your better off going the 'ally as gadget' route.

[the_matrix_walker]

Except that an "Ally as Equipment" also has added issues, since they added in a requirement that if a Ally gives your character an ability, the character must still buy that ability with the "Granted by Familiar/Other" limitation.

So Iron Man would have to have
Ally: Armor
Innate Attack, Repulsor blasts, (Granted by familiar, -40%)
Flight and Enhanced Move: Flight (Granted by familiar, -40%)

etc etc etc, making that type of build most often useless.

[Angle]

You don't need granted by familiar - just give your ally Compartmentalized Mind (Controls) and Payload.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Angle

You don't need granted by familiar - just give your ally Compartmentalized Mind (Controls) and Payload.

Are you sure of that? I think you do.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Are you sure of that? I think you do.

Granted by familiar is for powers it gives to you. In the case of the suit, the power still belongs to the suit since the character uses the suit's powers, rather than receiving an independent iteration of the power.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Granted by familiar is for powers it gives to you. In the case of the suit, the power still belongs to the suit since the character uses the suit's powers, rather than receiving an independent iteration of the power.

The example in Supers for Superhuman ST indicates you take the armor as an Ally and buy ST with GBF. There is certainly no independent ST, the armor is always supplying it, and the character is not imbued with anything but being able to use the suit's capabilities.

That seems to disagree with what you are saying here.