Gadget limiations and other limitations

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

The example in Supers for Superhuman ST indicates you take the armor as an Ally and buy ST with GBF. There is certainly no independent ST, the armor is always supplying it, and the character is not imbued with anything but being able to use the suit's capabilities.

That seems to disagree with what you are saying here.

I don't have Supers, but from what you are saying about it, it sounds inconsistent with the wording in Characters and seems to thwart a key purpose of Controls.

[the_matrix_walker]

I think it was decided that an Ally being able to grant powers in this way was broken and things were changed around a bit.

There are allot of inconsistencies of this type in GURPS, as editions span many years. Generally the later printed material is "more canonical."

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

That seems to disagree with what you are saying here.

I'm not able to link the Kromm quote, but Kromm also disagrees. And basically for the reasons you later site.

If the vehicular ally is Piloted and you use Gunner to operate it's weapons, Payload and Controls ought to be fine (not sure how Kromm rules on this one).

If you get to fire the weapons using other skills... it's Granted by Familiar.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I think it was decided that an Ally being able to grant powers in this way was broken and things were changed around a bit.

Hmm ...

Using Compartmentalized Mind (Controls), your ally pays 25cp for the controls, the ally buys whatever powers it has at regular price, it needs Special Powers if its powers are special enough, and you'll want it to be Constant x4. For a cost of somewhere around 20cp you can command powers equal to nearly 50% of your CP cost, minus 25 points.

Using Granted by Familiar, your ally would need the Special Powers +50% modifier, and ideally you take it as a Constant ally (x4). For whatever cost it finishes out at (as little as 21 cp by my estimate), you can then take a -40% modifier on powers in grants. The incentive is to have a very low cost Ally doing any granting and to shovel as many powers as possible under that umbrella.

It seems like the Granted by Familiar method is the munchkin winner.

... Generally the later printed material is "more canonical."

Interesting. Even an oblique contradiction in an example in later material can over-rule the long-standing pillar of the basic set? I wonder, is there a list of these cases? That would be useful.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

...you can then take a -40% modifier on powers in grants.

It seems like the Granted by Familiar method is the munchkin winner.

Not quite...

You don't asses the Granted By Ally on the Ally... You also have to buy the powers, but can add the Granted by Ally limitation to the powers you buy that are granted by the Ally.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Not quite...

You don't asses the Granted By Ally on the Ally... You also have to buy the powers, but can add the Granted by Ally limitation to the powers you buy that are granted by the Ally.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand where the difference is between what you are saying and what I said.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

I'm sorry, but I don't understand where the difference is between what you are saying and what I said.

My error, referring to it as the "munchkin winner" made it sound like that was the route to "getting powers for really cheap".

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

My error, referring to it as the "munchkin winner" made it sound like that was the route to "getting powers for really cheap".

You kind of get them 40% cheaper than the alternative of your ally having Compartmental Mind (Controls) instead.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

You kind of get them 40% cheaper than the alternative of your ally having Compartmental Mind (Controls) instead.

The alternative has all costs assumed by the Ally, except the cost of the Ally itself (of course).



Which is why I'm thinking it's verboten.