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Old 02-14-2015, 02:31 PM   #1
Tyneras
 
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Default GURPS Magic with Action Points (Pyr 3/44)

I love Action Points, they are something I genuinely hope becomes part of the base game whenever the next edition of GURPS comes out, or even a full supplement for 4E. As presented, however, they leave their use with Magic (and other FP burning abilities) open ended. Understandable, a Pyramid article has only so much space, after all.

I think AP can be used with Magic, but some changes are required (obviously). Mages have powerful cost reducing and FP recovery abilities in their discounts for high skill and the Recover Energy skill. This is understandable, since without high skill cost reduction a wizard would likely burn through their total FP several times over in a single battle where a warrior or archer might use a fraction of theirs without extra effort.

1. Remove reduced spell cost for high skill. This won’t be needed anymore.

2. Remove the Recover Energy skill. This won’t be needed and is overpowered if left in unmodified.

3. Convert MOST spells from FP to AP on a 1 to 1 basis. Without cost reduction or Recover Energy most spells are expensive enough to be self-limiting in use. With the cumulative penalties for lost FP wizards should be wary of burning FP on AP for big spells, since those same spells will be more likely to fail from reduced skill. Healing spells in particular should remain with FP costs, due to the ability to burn HP to power spells.

4. Some spells will retain their FP cost, based on criteria like desire for rarity of the spell or theme.

5. The penalties for casting spells while maintaining spells (p.10) should apply to the HT roll to recover AP.

New Ability: Energy Points [2 pts/level]
Energy Points are to Energy Reserve what Action Points are to FP. Personally, I’d argue that recovery events using the Meditation Skill instead of HT would be thematically appropriate for magic or holy EP.

I haven’t (yet) gone through Magic with a fine tooth comb, and even if I did I’m be making campaign assumptions as I went that might not agree with yours. But at first glance, this appears to work for “bread and butter” combat spells like Fireball or Lightning, as well as various buffs and debuffs.

I also think this would mesh well with adjustable spells from Thaumatology (p.39-40).
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Old 02-14-2015, 03:32 PM   #2
Mailanka
 
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Default Re: GURPS Magic with Action Points (Pyr 3/44)

Ah, the Last Gasp. I too share your love for it. It requires quite some book keeping which isn't appropriate for all games, but I certainly enjoyed using it.

I'd love to see a fuller treatment, especially with a little playtesting behind it, as the basis for something like a Pyramid article. Last Gasp deserves more love, and I think you're right, used correctly, it could definitely fit into something like DF, especially for fast-casting mages who can recover relatively quickly (and can do HUGE castings that leave them utterly drained for hours or days)
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Old 02-15-2015, 11:28 PM   #3
Tyneras
 
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Default Re: GURPS Magic with Action Points (Pyr 3/44)

I haven't found bookkeeping particularly difficult. Since I have several overflowing change jars, we just used pennies and nickles to represent AP and FP in our last game. FP expenditures took long enough to recover from we just treated them as permanent debuffs until the party stopped to make camp and rest.

Few quick experiments, Powerstones and Paut work fine with 1 to 1 conversions of FP to AP, though Powerstones may need a buff in regeneration speed and Paut a reduction in price.

I was worried about healing, but it seems at a 1 to 1 FP to AP conversion works fine. The cumulative skill penalties do more to prevent abuse of cheap heals than the actual cost of Minor or Major Healing.

The exception being Great Healing, which normally costs 20 FP, but I'd advocate changing it to 3 FP. 20 FP sounds like a lot, but with a good Recover Energy skill you could have that back in 1hr40min to 40 min, minus some HP is you have between 11 and 19 FP. With AP, 3 FP will be felt by anyone with less than 15 FP (as -1 to DX, IQ, HT and -10% ST) and could take 3 to 6 hours to recover from. This strikes me as a difference but still interesting penalty for a big heal you can pull off once per day. I could even see bumping it up to 5 FP per casting.

At the moment I've developed a rule of thumb for conversion: and spell that costs less than 7 FP can be made to be AP on a 1 to 1 basis. Anything 7 FP or more should be considered and likely still use FP, though at a reduced cost.
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Old 02-16-2015, 12:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: GURPS Magic with Action Points (Pyr 3/44)

I've done something related in my own magic overhaul, which I may post about after I playtest it for real.

The problem with this your version is that anything cast entirely with AP becomes completely trivial out of combat.
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Old 02-16-2015, 01:46 PM   #5
DouglasCole
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Default Re: GURPS Magic with Action Points (Pyr 3/44)

I've been following this, I might add, but since I don't currently run a magic game using AP, y'all are in a better position to evaluate what works than I am.
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Old 02-16-2015, 02:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: GURPS Magic with Action Points (Pyr 3/44)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchonShiva View Post
I've done something related in my own magic overhaul, which I may post about after I playtest it for real.

The problem with this your version is that anything cast entirely with AP becomes completely trivial out of combat.
True, but so is swinging a sword out of combat. I think the biggest challenge facing me right now (well, next time I can sit down and do a few more experiments) is differentiating what should and shouldn't be trivial.

The Last Gasp presents a system where, as you said, anything using AP is trivial, but at the same time anything using FP directly is far more significant than in RAW. Whatever balance point I reach and feel comfortable at will by necessity be different that where RAW puts us.
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:06 PM   #7
DouglasCole
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Default Re: GURPS Magic with Action Points (Pyr 3/44)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyneras View Post
True, but so is swinging a sword out of combat. I think the biggest challenge facing me right now (well, next time I can sit down and do a few more experiments) is differentiating what should and shouldn't be trivial.

The Last Gasp presents a system where, as you said, anything using AP is trivial, but at the same time anything using FP directly is far more significant than in RAW. Whatever balance point I reach and feel comfortable at will by necessity be different that where RAW puts us.
What you might want to do is look for spells that are usually combat spells, and assign them an appropriate AP cost, and then look at non-combat spells, and just hit them up with FP. There may well be border cases, but FP out of combat, AP in combat might play well, game-mechanically."
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:28 PM   #8
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Default Re: GURPS Magic with Action Points (Pyr 3/44)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
What you might want to do is look for spells that are usually combat spells, and assign them an appropriate AP cost, and then look at non-combat spells, and just hit them up with FP. There may well be border cases, but FP out of combat, AP in combat might play well, game-mechanically."
About what I was expecting I would do in the end. I'm not sure what I would do with such a list (outside my own games) since I'm pretty sure SJ Games would be most displeased if I reprinted said list, even if it was nothing more than spell names, new costs and any edge-case or genre notes.
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:39 PM   #9
DouglasCole
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Default Re: GURPS Magic with Action Points (Pyr 3/44)

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Originally Posted by Tyneras View Post
About what I was expecting I would do in the end. I'm not sure what I would do with such a list (outside my own games) since I'm pretty sure SJ Games would be most displeased if I reprinted said list, even if it was nothing more than spell names, new costs and any edge-case or genre notes.
What would happen if you said "spells with a duration of 10 seconds or less use AP, the rest use FP?"
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