09-04-2017, 05:36 AM | #21 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
|
Re: Battletech/Mechwarrior mechs in GURPS
Quote:
My own take: since we know the tonnage and speeds of the mechs, calculate ST/HP, LWt, and Move off that, give them appropriate Hnd/SR scores for the feel you're going for, base the weapons on their closest GURPS equivalents, and DR able to withstand what they're intended to face off against. Done. :)
__________________
"Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J'onzz, 1991 "But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!" The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation. Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting |
|
09-04-2017, 01:38 PM | #22 |
Stick in the Mud
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rural Utah
|
Re: Battletech/Mechwarrior mechs in GURPS
There are of course other absurdities in Battletech. Such as trying to fit 400 or more six inch diameter and yard long missiles into mech body parts that are considerably smaller than the space that would take.
__________________
MIB #1457 |
09-04-2017, 07:40 PM | #23 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Orem, Utah, USA
|
Re: Battletech/Mechwarrior mechs in GURPS
Quote:
Of course when they did a Star League Era mech book and the clans they didn't raise the weapon ranges significantly and stopped trying to explain the ranges at all. Last edited by rkbrown419; 09-04-2017 at 07:41 PM. Reason: corecting typo |
|
09-06-2017, 11:45 PM | #24 |
Join Date: Dec 2015
|
Re: Battletech/Mechwarrior mechs in GURPS
|
09-07-2017, 11:58 AM | #25 |
Forum Pervert
(If you have to ask . . .) Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Somewhere high up.
|
Re: Battletech/Mechwarrior mechs in GURPS
Then it really depends. Are you looking for the flavor of BattleTech, or just using the 'Mech names?
If you're just using 'Mech names, just build them out of Spaceships and be done with it. If you want the flavor . . . well, that's going to be a massive investment of time on your part. Most of us who have used GURPS to run a BattleTech game have done so by using the original system to keep from having to re-invent the wheel. The BattleTech system works and that's where most of the flavor comes from. First, You'll want to pick a scale (I always recommend C-scale for 'Mechs, it makes them, generally, superior to tanks and the numbers don't get too high) and build out all of the weapons. Then, you'll have to decide on how you want to do 'Mech armor. Is it by location, like in BattleTech or is it by facing, like GURPS? Probably the latter, since you don't want to use BattleTech. Also, you'll have to determine if you want the armor to be ablative, semi-ablative or normal. All have advantages and weaknesses. How much and in what location will all have to be determined and tweaked. Extensive play-testing will be a must. Additionally, you'll have to invent, whole-cloth a mechanic for heat. That's something GURPS has never used. I've tried a few times and never had any decent success. This was the most recent attempt I made (link to local Denver GURPS Board), but didn't get to far. Based out of GURPS 'Mechs will be incredibly fragile: The old hammer and eggshell problem. So, you'll have to come up with a way to mitigate that. A 100-ton Atlas would have 234 HP (a T-72 has 176 HP), if you calculated from its total weight. But GURPS says from empty weight, which is going to be problematic to generate for every 'Mech. So, the AS7-D Atlas, from 3025, carries 36 tons of weapons. Utilizing that, the "empty weight" would be 64 tons, meaning it would only have 202 HP. Since 'Mechs are built with a target weight in mind, and aren't built to carry a payload (unless you're dealing with OmniMechs), it seems logical to use their final weight. For Omnis, I'd actually suggest using their empty weight as that seems to be a nice weakness for them to have to deal with. Strengths generated from the HP value would inflict anemic melee damage compared to the BattleTech counterparts. The Atlas would only inflict 24d in a punch or kick, which at C-Scale would be, 1d-3. That's not a punch, it's a gentle caress. An average kick wouldn't penetrate the side armor of a T-72, nor move it. At best, the kick would be able to inflict 1 point of cDamage through the side armor (and inflict a major wound). While realistic, this isn't a BattleTech result. Using BattleTech numbers, the Atlas would kick for a massive 20 points of cDamage, blowing through the T-72's impressive frontal cDR of 12, and reducing its 2 cHP to -6 cHP (-3x HP), likely destroying it. |
09-07-2017, 12:18 PM | #26 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
|
Re: Battletech/Mechwarrior mechs in GURPS
I'm not super-familiar with the Battletech setting, so I can't help with direct conversions. However, for a system to do those conversions, you might want to check out the system in the article "Modular Mecha", in Pyramid #3/51, Tech and Toys III. It's designed specifically for mechs, so it's got a bit finer granularity than using the Spaceships setting. Comparing the 'Mech classes on the wiki I found, it looks the three categories of mechs in the article, Light, Medium, and Heavy, correspond reasonably well to the Battlemech categories of the same names. You'll have to come up with extrapolations for Assault and Superheavy 'mechs, but that shouldn't be too difficult, I'd think.
|
09-07-2017, 07:26 PM | #27 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
|
Re: Battletech/Mechwarrior mechs in GURPS
ModularMecha would get you closer to the "non-transformable battloids" of the Macross setting than it would to Battletech and its' core Mechs which just borrowed Macross artwork.
__________________
Fred Brackin |
09-07-2017, 08:55 PM | #28 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
|
Re: Battletech/Mechwarrior mechs in GURPS
Quote:
First off, TRO 3025 and mostly the original 14 only, because I used to build the old Revelon models and they're the only ones I care about. (If you want to do clan stuff, you can extrapolate). Which simplifies things a bit, because the original 14 don't have ACs other than AC/5s, and you don't have to deal with Battletech's weird AC damage versus range rules. Second: if you run the numbers, a Large Laser is just about the same weight as a Spaceships SM+5 Major Battery, or a 30 MJ weapon, and Medium Lasers and Small Lasers and PPCs actually fall pretty nicely on other side as 10 MJ, 3 MJ, and 100 MJ weapons. A Battletech Machine Gun looks like it fires roughly the same amount of metal as a M2 Browning HMG. SRMs look kind of like modern 127mm anti-missiles, and LRMs like 84mm LAWs (though obviously the ranges are wrong). Converting all of that to d-scale: Machine : 1d+2 pi++, Acc 5, Rng 1800/7600, RoF 8. Small Laser: 3d bu, Acc 10, Rng 3200/9600, RoF 1. Medium Laser: 5d bu, Acc 10, Rng 4800/144000, RoF 1. Large Laser: 8d bu, Acc 10, Rng 7200/216000, RoF 1. PPC: 9d+2 bu, Acc 10, Rng 108000/324000, RoF 1. AC/5: 4d pi++, Acc 6, Rng 4000/8000, RoF 6. (40mm?) LRM: 3d+2 cr ex, Acc 4, Rng 12000, RoF 5,10,15,20. SRM: 7d+1 cr ex, Acc 2, Rng 5000, RoF 2,4,6. If you give each 'mech front dDR equal to half the total of its Battletech torso DR, then most light mechs can mostly resist Small Lasers but not Medium Lasers, medium mechs can mostly resist Medium Lasers but not Large lasers, heavy mechs take some damage from PPCs, and the Battlemaster doesn't care what you hit it with. I'd probably give arms and legs 2/3rds (or so) the DR of the torso, so you can cripple things if your mech's weapons won't damage it directly, and the back 1/3rd, so light mechs can usefully flank and shoot people. I'm assuming non-ablative DR here for simplicity. Mech dHP is 4*cube root(2*mass in tons), so 14 for the 20 tonners up to 22 for the assault mechs. Move in yds/s is ~2*BT base move, and all 'mechs have Enhanced Move 1/2. I'd give light mech's Hnd/SR of +2/4, and reduce Hnd by one per weight class. Doing all this is going to change the feel of the game: you'll see more symmetrical matchups, with light mechs only capable of damaging other light mechs and so on. It'll be something like naval battles before the invention of the torpedo. I don't know if that's the feel that you want, but hey, here are some numbers. Play around with them, see what you like. I don't attempt to address the question of heat or weird ranges because I'm not sure either of those ever made a lot of sense. If it offends you that a Rifleman can actually use all its guns at once then you'll have to find a solution that makes sense.
__________________
Read my GURPS blog: http://noschoolgrognard.blogspot.com |
|
09-07-2017, 10:19 PM | #29 |
Forum Pervert
(If you have to ask . . .) Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Somewhere high up.
|
Re: Battletech/Mechwarrior mechs in GURPS
D-scale is not good for 'Mechs. At least, not if you're going to talk canon 'Mechs. 'Mechs are more than a match for any 20th Century tank. But, not according to your numbers.
A TL7 tank gun will ruin a 'Mech's day with a single shot, and no 'Mech could survive two hits. APFSDS rounds would do 6dx3(2) (18d (2)) pi++ dDam. That would give an AS7-D Atlas a dDR 58 to the Center Torso, which would be reduced to 29, making the shot survivable, but barely. The 63 average dDam from the tank gun would take the Atlas to -12 HP, and it wouldn't survive another hit. Anything shy of that is going to be at -HP or lower. A single hit from a PPC can not damage an Atlas. With a maximum d-damage of 56 vs the dDR of 58 . . .. Also, keep in mind that the Atlas would only be doing 2d damage with a punch or kick. |
09-07-2017, 10:37 PM | #30 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
|
Re: Battletech/Mechwarrior mechs in GURPS
Shouldn't that be 2d+2 for punches and 2d+4 for kicks with the bonus from a hard striking surface?
|
Tags |
battletech, mecha, mechs, mechwarrior |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|