Evil Druids

[Dalin]

Is an evil druid an abomination to Nature? Or is Nature just a force that can be used by certain people for any purpose? Are druids the equivalent of wizards who can use the same power for different sorts of purposes? (One doesn't imagine wizards worrying about what Mana will think about their choices in life.)

I've used druids as foes in a few recent one-shots. They were great—creating vicious tigers, using disguises, and basically turning the forest into a creepy dungeon. They provided good motivation for the party druid who saw them as abominations. Afterward, I was left wondering how they fit into the cosmos. I was surprised (and gratified) to see how flexible the basic template is; there are no required disadvantages, not even SoD (Nature).

What about the trope of a tainted wilderness? Might there be druids who have strayed so far from Nature's path that the animals they create are warped abominations? What's the fluff behind this? Could there be a druid who is partial to elder things (or demons, elementals, undead creatures, etc.), drawing power from a different "Nature" entirely?

How do you imagine druids, Nature, and druidic orders and organizations in your game world(s)?

[martinl]

Originally Posted by Dalin

Is an evil druid an abomination to Nature?

If you mean "evil" in the sense of "colossal amoral jerk" then no. Druidry has no requirements to be nice. Go (ahem) nuts.

If you mean "Evil" as in "servant of supernatural evil powers," then IMO yes. A druid is a servant of the powers of Nature, not the powers of Evil.

This is all basic GEBS theory.

Disclaimer - GEBS theory is not official DFRPG canon but it works as a solid summary. See linked thread above for details.

[b-dog]

My cosmology is different than the standard DF one. In my concept there are four powers, the Divine, the Infernal, the Faerie and the true nature of reality. The Divine is the strongest and it is aligned with good and order, the Infernal is a close second and is aligned with evi and then there is the Faerie which is unaligned. Some can be good, others evil but most are neutral. They just have not completely picked a side yet. The true nature of reality are the Elder Things. The universe was created from chaos and unfortunately some of that chaos remains in dark pockets of the universe.

As for druids I think of them more as priests of the old faiths, the gods who have not aligned with good or evil. These gods and spirits often reside in nature and thus are more powerful in nature while the Divine and Infernal is more powerful in civilization, with beings with souls to convert. In my world nature is not magical by itself, it is the magical power from the old gods, spirits and faerie that provide the magic that the druids use and it is intertwined with nature and forests because the faerie like nature.

If I had to make an evil Druid he would be friends with many evil faerie and ancient gods and would warp nature to reflect that. He would be close to being Infernal but the powers he serves have not completed the bargain. A Druid serving Elder Things would just be a dupe though, Elder Things in my world are there to subvert and destroy everything.

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by martinl

This is all basic GEBS theory.

I forgot about this rich thread. I've just reread the first page and enjoyed contemplating Kromm's post:

Originally Posted by Kromm

Nature's strength is ambient life force. It emanates from all living things.
. . .
Nature's strength is the collective life force of all living things, associated with no one creature and capable of existing independently of living beings as long as there are such beings.
. . .
As druids and others who wield Nature's strength most directly champion Life (which isn't the same as Good . . . Life can be Good, Neutral, or Evil), they often stand in direct opposition to the Anti-Life of the Elder Things.

The first bit is RAW; the second two bits are from a possible cosmology that Kromm proposed. If I went with that, a druid of elder things wouldn't really be a druid at all. Such a druid would be more of a cleric of evil thingyness. That could create interesting options for such a faux druid as a foe. Normally, Nature's strength would be reversed for such a druid. Their strength goes up as you get closer to elder reality. So the reason they would be tainting the world would be to increase their type of Nature's strength. Their lair, therefore, might be low strength for a regular druid and high for them. Luring them out into regular nature would be a good strategy.

Out of time for now, but I'll work my way through the rest of the thread as I find the time. Thanks for pointing it out!

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Dalin

That could create interesting options for such a faux druid as a foe. Normally, Nature's strength would be reversed for such a druid. Their strength goes up as you get closer to elder reality. So the reason they would be tainting the world would be to increase their type of Nature's strength. Their lair, therefore, might be low strength for a regular druid and high for them. Luring them out into regular nature would be a good strategy.

Yeah thats I would handle it, they arent actual druids but could have similar but twisted abilities.
As for moral evil I see no issue with that and a normal druid. Nature is often ruthless, not always Disney.

[b-dog]

For an evil Druid, a possible idea might be to have him summon faeries to do a Wild Hunt on the PCs. There could be elves riding steeds and using elf shot to try to kill the PCs. The Druid could also summon an avatar of the Horned God to chase the PCs around too.

[Black Leviathan]

I take exception with a lot of DF theology but Druidism is especially compouding. There should fundamentally be no good in nature. It should be an absolute neutral at worst or outside of any human constructs like good or evil. Nature shouldn't be a power of good anymore than technology or magic are powers of evil. You could certainly have a Good god of nature but that doesn't make the natural world any less brutal or uncharitable or prone to decay.

It's insane that you wouldn't be able to make an evil-power Druid if only because the idea of them is soo cool in the setting. Do battle with the Rat King of the under-city, face the assassins of the venom lord, save the children from the Wolven Sisterhood. There's so much coolness in a villain that believes that men are the subjects of nature rather than it's masters.

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

There should fundamentally be no good in nature. It should be an absolute neutral at worst or outside of any human constructs like good or evil. Nature shouldn't be a power of good any more than technology or magic are powers of evil. You could certainly have a Good god of nature but that doesn't make the natural world any less brutal or uncharitable or prone to decay.

Yeah, this fits in with my thinking too.

[MUSING]In AD&D, druids were conceived of as true neutral. But, like so many things with the alignment system, this made sense on the surface but created all sorts of contradictions when you dug into it. For example, most of the evil races were aggressive despoilers of nature (likely modeled on Tolkien's pastoral aesthetic). Meanwhile, many of the "good" races (e.g., elves and halflings) were pro-nature. This made it hard to imagine why any druids would side with the evil horde that was chopping down every tree in sight. Thus druids started migrating into being kindly elf-friends who love nothing more than wildflowers and birdsongs.[/MUSING]

It's insane that you wouldn't be able to make an evil-power Druid if only because the idea of them is soo cool in the setting. Do battle with the Rat King of the under-city, face the assassins of the venom lord, save the children from the Wolven Sisterhood. There's so much coolness in a villain that believes that men are the subjects of nature rather than it's masters.

As far as I'm understanding the vague cosmology in DFRPG, there's no reason at all that a druid couldn't be lowercase evil. There is no morality attached to Nature and no required vows or "good" disadvantages. There would also be nothing stopping a druid from being capital Evil, but that would be an added layer: an alliance with a truly evil entity like a demon or the Devil. That might get thorny (heh) if the demon prince is all about despoiling Nature, but the usual handwaving should do the trick. (After all, these druids live in a world where people are constantly duped into joining diabolical cults that are obviously opposed to their long-term interests, so why should they be immune?)

I do like the aesthetic of scary, amoral druids who you can't always trust, but who you might need to make temporary alliances with.

[Yssa]

Originally Posted by Dalin

As far as I'm understanding the vague cosmology in DFRPG, there's no reason at all that a druid couldn't be lowercase evil. There is no morality attached to Nature and no required vows or "good" disadvantages. There would also be nothing stopping a druid from being capital Evil, but that would be an added layer: an alliance with a truly evil entity like a demon or the Devil. That might get thorny (heh) if the demon prince is all about despoiling Nature, but the usual handwaving should do the trick. (After all, these druids live in a world where people are constantly duped into joining diabolical cults that are obviously opposed to their long-term interests, so why should they be immune?)

Considering both "e" and "E":

A tempting variation on the druid seduced by the demon and blind to it's end goals would be a demon-possessed druid. That way, you don't have the mental conflict: you have the uncompromised big-E-Evil mind wielding nature's strength. It's easy to imagine ways a demon might benefit from druidic powers. There's nothing unnatural about a great thornwood overtaking the countryside, a massive earthquake, or (if quirky is your style) a cloud of pollen driving the townsfolk mad with sneezing, but all could serve the demon's end, whether it is death, civil war, or driving people to join the aforementioned cults.

As I see it, small e is just anything that gets in the PC's way. A true servant of nature could see it as her duty to defend nature from the blight of humanity, or perhaps she just despises (and disrupts) agriculture as contrary to the wild systems nature intends. Either of these druids would look pretty evil to delvers who have lived their lives seeing "civilization" as the way of the world (or at least rely on it as a place to sell the spoils of the dungeon).

I do also like the idea of a un-druid, perverted and warped and obsessed with twisting nature into something only she sees as beautiful. I first thought this might require creating new spells, but between storms, freezes, shaping and withering plants, and repelling animals, you could create some pretty twisted wastes. Perhaps she was once a great druid in the neutral-but-actually-good-because-pastoralism sort of way, but by over-exerting herself in some epic battle she fractured her own mind/powers/conscience, emerging equally powerful but without the grounding or sanity one expects of a druid.

[Black Leviathan]

I like the idea of a Capital E Druid. I see no reason Capital E couldn't corrupt a Druid just as easily as Capital G can. If you're facing off against Crocodile Baron of Blackthorn Swamp lets give the Cleric and Holy warrior a little oomph against them. Lets also have his demonic master give him a greater artifact that allows him to create and control zombies because swamp zombie gator baron is awesome!