Disbelief

[Sinanju]

I only heard about the rerelease of TFT a couple of weeks ago, but it got me reading my old copies of the game and hankering to play it again. Just picked up my Legacy Box at my local game store last night. Yay!

This is apparently (as I can't find anything about it in the rules) a house rule my long-ago gaming group used for disbelieving:

If you want to disbelieve an illusion, you cannot defend against it. "I don't think that spearman charging at me is real," so you stand without moving and let it strike. If it's an illusion, it vanishes. If it's not...well, you thought it was and he gets a free strike at you.

If you get nervous and try to defend, well obviously you don't *really* disbelieve it. So you still don't know if it's real or not.

[FireHorse]

There is some logic to that, but if my Disbelief truly is strong enough, shouldn't the Illusory Spearman disappear before he gets close enough to strike me (and prove that he's real)? And if he doesn't disappear, then it doesn't matter whether he's real or illusory, because I can still be wounded by him, so I must defend against his attack.

[hcobb]

Disbelief in TFT requires five seconds of concentration doing nothing else more than taking a step, maintain spells, and using high level Staff occult strikes.

[mark hill]

In the old rules it said disbelief was 'like a spell anyone can cast' .. so yeah, you cant disbelieve while defending, or anything much else

[hcobb]

Note that the Necropus can have each of her skeletons disbelieve with her full IQ 19+ at the same time.

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Note that the Necropus can have each of her skeletons disbelieve with her full IQ 19+ at the same time.

Huh? How can a wizard-controlled skeleton disbelieve anything? They aren't sentient.

[hcobb]

ITL 87

Compare to ITL 137: "it cannot try to cast a spell or to disbelieve an illusion, since it has no will of its own."

[Sinanju]

Originally Posted by FireHorse

There is some logic to that, but if my Disbelief truly is strong enough, shouldn't the Illusory Spearman disappear before he gets close enough to strike me (and prove that he's real)? And if he doesn't disappear, then it doesn't matter whether he's real or illusory, because I can still be wounded by him, so I must defend against his attack.

Yeah, he might vanish before he reached you. Or he might not.

As I recall (it was a long time ago), the purpose behind this house rule was to make disbelief risky. Or riskier. You couldn't just go around trying to disbelieve everything that confronted you. You don't think it's real? Then ignore it. If you don't ignore it, then clearly you aren't convinced it's unreal, so you can't Disbelieve.

[Skarg]

While the concept is interesting and makes some sense, I don't think it's necessary for balance (if anything, Illusions might want some more disadvantages, not more advantages), and I think someone who understands that Illusions exist could consistently disbelieve while also not making oneself a sitting duck.

How about if it were an option that can increase your ability to disbelieve? i.e. if an illusion is currently in position to attack you, and you make a point of not defending yourself while you disbelieve, you get a +2 to your effective IQ on your disbelief roll.

[mark hill]

lol I keep thinking of Dave in Knights of the Dinner Table (plays "El Ravager") .. anytime the GM throws something scary at the party he starts screaming DISBELIEVE! DISBELIEVE! .. lol the brave lead fighter :)