Follow-up damage type (internal or external)

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Varyon

It would need to do more than cause bleeding, the impactor would need to go into the body, at which point it's really some class of piercing attack. A rock thrown by a human does crushing damage, but one launched by a cannon does pi++, because the latter is thrown hard enough to penetrate.

A rock thrown by a human breaks through the window glass and can explode for internal damage inside the house/vehicle if it's a grenade instead of a rock. Would you argue that the attack magically becomes piercing just because it's aimed at a window?

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by Varyon

It would need to do more than cause bleeding, the impactor would need to go into the body, at which point it's really some class of piercing attack. A rock thrown by a human does crushing damage, but one launched by a cannon does pi++, because the latter is thrown hard enough to penetrate.

Penetrate what, though? We can't always say human flesh is the target. We're better off saying it's a momentum/cross-sectional area ratio (including relative scale to target's cross section) to change the damage type . A nerf ball fired from a cannon at a human shouldn't be pi++. Nor should a needle fired from a needler at a SM -14 Ant-Man (he has a crushing mountain range sized needle coming at him, but plenty of DR at that scale, because Pym particles are weird).

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

A rock thrown by a human breaks through the window glass and can explode for internal damage inside the house/vehicle if it's a grenade instead of a rock. Would you argue that the attack magically becomes piercing just because it's aimed at a window?

Well, it actually broken the window. If a crushing attack breaks a person, whether or not the followup counts as penetrating damage is a bit moot, and we don't have rules for breaking worn armor.

Arguably crushing damage and piercing damage should be a continuum of the same thing, if you drop a cannonball on your toe it's going to be crushing, it's just that most weapons that do crushing damage would have a damage code of pi+7 or so (estimating the pi+X as X = 14 + size modifier for diameter).

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Arguably crushing damage and piercing damage should be a continuum of the same thing, if you drop a cannonball on your toe it's going to be crushing, it's just that most weapons that do crushing damage would have a damage code of pi+7 or so (estimating the pi+X as X = 14 + size modifier for diameter).

Yeah, this is what I was getting at - Piercing is really just "Crushing damage moving fast enough to penetrate deep into flesh." When the T800 in The Terminator punched through a man's chest, that would have been some class of piercing damage (a rather high-injury class - Arnold's fists aren't exactly petite). As you noted, however, once a typically-crushing attack is strong enough to penetrate deep into flesh, the target is probably too dead for the switch to pi to make a difference.

As for the grenade through a window, transitioning it to pi for purposes of injuring the window is appropriate if it indeed punches a hole into the window (rather than just shattering the window - getting rid of it as cover - and continues forward, which is possible considering glass has Fragile:Brittle). Certainly, if you're using a blowthrough cap, that should apply to the window. The grenade then goes off in a partially-contained (there's a hole in the window) room, which uses different rules for determining damage than when a grenade goes off inside, say, a dragon's gullet. If the house is a character (or not a house at all, but rather a mecha or similar), things get a bit dicier, and should probably be handled on a case-by-case basis. Notably, damage to the window probably shouldn't count against the character's HP (windows are more akin to accessories like sunglasses), and what the explosion damages would depend heavily on what is on the other side of that glass.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Yeah, this is what I was getting at - Piercing is really just "Crushing damage moving fast enough to penetrate deep into flesh." When the T800 in The Terminator punched through a man's chest, that would have been some class of piercing damage (a rather high-injury class - Arnold's fists aren't exactly petite). As you noted, however, once a typically-crushing attack is strong enough to penetrate deep into flesh, the target is probably too dead for the switch to pi to make a difference.

There are rules in GURPS Supers for turning a flying super's "move through" attack into a form of piercing damage. They mainly apply against large vehicles, though. (Could have used them for Carol Danvers a couple of times. . . .)

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Varyon

It would need to do more than cause bleeding, the impactor would need to go into the body, at which point it's really some class of piercing attack. A rock thrown by a human does crushing damage, but one launched by a cannon does pi++, because the latter is thrown hard enough to penetrate.

Eye-poke does crushing damage to the eye, I'd say that goes into the body.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Plane

Eye-poke does crushing damage to the eye, I'd say that goes into the body.

Can it inflict damage on the brain?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Plane

Eye-poke does crushing damage to the eye, I'd say that goes into the body.

It probably shouldn't be crushing damage.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Can it inflict damage on the brain?

No, you need to use Lethal Eye Poke (which converts it to Piercing damage) to do that. But it should give you exposure for doing Blood Agent stuff.

Anyone know if we've gotten any answers on how someone with Claws using Eye Poke would work? I know Cutting can't normally target the eyes, but Crushing can't normally do that either and Eye Poke seems to ignore that.

[Aldric]

I'm not even sure I would model an attack that transfers energy inside the target and makes itnexplode as a follow up.
I would probably use some form of attack that does not interact with DR at all or, of that becomes too complicated, some form of Cosmic.
After all when I think of attacks that channel energy inside a body, I think of "My attacks transfer Chi inside your body, your armor won't protect you"