What do the slave camps do? [Reign of Steel]

ericthered · 02-20-2020, 05:40 PM

In the reign of steel setting, some AI's make use of captive human labor to boost their economy, such as Seattle and Beijing.

What activities are these unfortunates actually doing? How does the zonemind justify the cost of the guard robots? The stereotypical activity for such slave camps is mining, but that's among the things machines do much much better than humans.

During the early days I can see some use for humans that operate human-only machinery, thus giving the AI more vehicles, but in the years after the collapse those machines may not be worth maintaining, certainly aren't worth replacing, and the zonemind may be able to make a simple robot that operates the human-only construction equipment. And with the way the world is going, it may just be about replacing chips and wiring up cameras.

Actual muscle power is probably the least effective way to use your humans.

Robots have struggled to replicate all of the things fingers can do, at least all in one package. So fine work may be something your humans are good at. But not too fine.

Work where you don't know what to expect seems like it might be a good option, like many repair jobs. That may be the riskiest place to employ your humans, but if it works, you may have a real economic advantage.

The final economic use I can think of is to staff factories that have just a few non-automated positions until you can replace the humans in that system.

lastly, you can run a sham camp that promises food, shelter, and work, and pull the troublesome wild humans out of the wild into camps where you can watch them properly and sneak contraceptives into their diet. Or kill them en-route to "new" camp.

so how would you as a zonemind make money off of captive humans?

Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 · 02-20-2020, 06:09 PM

Actually the best use of slave camps is to keep the Resistance distracted. Between freeing slaves, smuggling slaves out of their territory, rehabilitating freed slaves, etc., the Resistance would be using up a significant part of their resources and time. And it's questionable if the Resistance could actually keep their own personnel under control if they ignored the situation.

If the Zoneminds can't wipe out the Resistance in one swift stroke, then making them split their resources is a viable strategy.

ericbsmith · 02-21-2020, 12:18 AM

They may serve as sources to satisfy morbid curiosity or experimentation. Of course, if you leave them around with idle hands they start creating trouble.

Maybe they're being brainwashed to act as anti-resistance fighters, so when they get "rescued" they can act as double agents.

Or maybe they mine them for ideas. While the Zoneminds are extremely intelligent, they maybe lack some of that human creativity?

RyanW · 02-21-2020, 12:43 AM

Sure, a bot can do a lot of jobs better, but if the people are already there you might as well use them while they last and postpone the investment. Aside from the Zoneminds doing experimentation, there probably isn't any real effort to keep slaves as an ongoing effort (i.e. keeping them healthy, much less breeding).

Guarding probably isn't that complicated. A turret with a sensor and a good field of view can do most of the work.

tbone · 02-21-2020, 01:08 AM

The human captives power the matrix, of course.

(No, I don't quite understand that either.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2

Actually the best use of slave camps is to keep the Resistance distracted. Between freeing slaves, smuggling slaves out of their territory, rehabilitating freed slaves, etc., the Resistance would be using up a significant part of their resources and time. And it's questionable if the Resistance could actually keep their own personnel under control if they ignored the situation.

To expand on that a little, it's something of a human shield situation. The AIs can place lots of slaves around high-value targets that the Resistance would want to attack. They can also demonstrate a willingness to retaliate against slaves as punishment for Resistance actions.

This could raise some real moral dilemmas for the Resistance. Hitting the AIs too hard could mean horrible things for the captives. On the other hand, giving up and running away becomes a problem too. If the Resistance isn't hitting the AI at all, the AI may decide it has no more use for its human shields . . .

The Colonel · 02-21-2020, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone

The human captives power the matrix, of course.

(No, I don't quite understand that either.) . . .

I'm told originally the humans were being used as wetware units for some kind of distributed processing operation, but the execs thought that the public weren't smart enough to understand that so switched to the nonsense about power instead...

Prince Charon · 02-21-2020, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Colonel

I'm told originally the humans were being used as wetware units for some kind of distributed processing operation, but the execs thought that the public weren't smart enough to understand that so switched to the nonsense about power instead...

Humans being used for distributed computing power does make more sense than humans being used for electrical power.

RogerBW · 02-21-2020, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Humans being used for distributed computing power does make more sense than humans being used for electrical power.

And one thing humans are really good at, and conventional computing architectures aren't, is fuzzy pattern recognition.

In my Zone Washington, that's what human teleworkers do - they're assigned to a fleet of 256 street sweeper bots, and when any bot comes across something it can't handle, a human's called to look through the bot's cameras, work out what the problem is, and take steps to resolve it. (This is actually quite stressful for the humans, because they're constantly being dropped into new problems – if they have time to idle, they could be supervising more bots – and never get to see how anything finishes.)

Now with non-cooperative slave workers you need to get a bit more subtle. Putting them into a virtual reality that models threats based on various predatory animals, and prioritises them based on subconscious responses, might work.

TGLS · 02-21-2020, 09:07 AM

The only way it makes much sense for labour camps as presented in RoS make much sense is if AUs (Autonomous Units) are really expensive to the point where it's cheaper to use humans for marginally skilled labour than building AUs or allowing NUs to make mistakes.

Following on from that, it could be that they hardly make anything back from the labour camps. This would explain why the factions that do use slave labour aren't doing much better than those that use resources to directly exterminate humans. It could be that the AIs that use slave labour aren't quite as calculating as they pretend to be, and are just using a slightly more economical way to kill all the humans. After all, the work needs to be done, if it kills humans in the process, just as well.

LoneWolf23k · 02-21-2020, 04:45 PM

I guess the end reasoning would depend on the Zonemind doing the actual enslaving. Brisbane only values Humans as lab rats, so it makes sense to also use them as manual labor for building and maintaining the science labs. Vancouver sees Human labor as a stopgap measure until enough dumbots are manufactured to handle the labor aspect.

Ultimately, however, the point of the Slave Camps is to get some use out of the Humans before they die of exhaustion or workplace injury. It's not really about labor effectiveness.

02-20-2020, 05:40 PM	#1
ericthered Hero of Democracy Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: far from the ocean	What do the slave camps do? [Reign of Steel] In the reign of steel setting, some AI's make use of captive human labor to boost their economy, such as Seattle and Beijing. What activities are these unfortunates actually doing? How does the zonemind justify the cost of the guard robots? The stereotypical activity for such slave camps is mining, but that's among the things machines do much much better than humans. During the early days I can see some use for humans that operate human-only machinery, thus giving the AI more vehicles, but in the years after the collapse those machines may not be worth maintaining, certainly aren't worth replacing, and the zonemind may be able to make a simple robot that operates the human-only construction equipment. And with the way the world is going, it may just be about replacing chips and wiring up cameras. Actual muscle power is probably the least effective way to use your humans. Robots have struggled to replicate all of the things fingers can do, at least all in one package. So fine work may be something your humans are good at. But not too fine. Work where you don't know what to expect seems like it might be a good option, like many repair jobs. That may be the riskiest place to employ your humans, but if it works, you may have a real economic advantage. The final economic use I can think of is to staff factories that have just a few non-automated positions until you can replace the humans in that system. lastly, you can run a sham camp that promises food, shelter, and work, and pull the troublesome wild humans out of the wild into camps where you can watch them properly and sneak contraceptives into their diet. Or kill them en-route to "new" camp. so how would you as a zonemind make money off of captive humans? __________________ Be helpful, not pedantic Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!

02-20-2020, 06:09 PM	#2
Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The deep dark haunted woods	Re: What do the slave camps do? [Reign of Steel] Actually the best use of slave camps is to keep the Resistance distracted. Between freeing slaves, smuggling slaves out of their territory, rehabilitating freed slaves, etc., the Resistance would be using up a significant part of their resources and time. And it's questionable if the Resistance could actually keep their own personnel under control if they ignored the situation. If the Zoneminds can't wipe out the Resistance in one swift stroke, then making them split their resources is a viable strategy. __________________ "When you talk about damage radius, even atomic weapons pale before that of an unfettered idiot in a position of power." - Sam Starfall from the webcomic Freefall

02-21-2020, 12:18 AM	#3
ericbsmith Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Binghamton, NY, USA. Near the river Styx in the 5th Circle.	Re: What do the slave camps do? [Reign of Steel] They may serve as sources to satisfy morbid curiosity or experimentation. Of course, if you leave them around with idle hands they start creating trouble. Maybe they're being brainwashed to act as anti-resistance fighters, so when they get "rescued" they can act as double agents. Or maybe they mine them for ideas. While the Zoneminds are extremely intelligent, they maybe lack some of that human creativity? __________________ Eric B. Smith GURPS Data File Coordinator GURPSLand I shall pull the pin from this healing grenade and... Kaboom-baya. Last edited by ericbsmith; 02-21-2020 at 12:21 AM.

02-21-2020, 12:43 AM	#4
RyanW ☣ Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Southeast NC	Re: What do the slave camps do? [Reign of Steel] Sure, a bot can do a lot of jobs better, but if the people are already there you might as well use them while they last and postpone the investment. Aside from the Zoneminds doing experimentation, there probably isn't any real effort to keep slaves as an ongoing effort (i.e. keeping them healthy, much less breeding). Guarding probably isn't that complicated. A turret with a sensor and a good field of view can do most of the work. __________________ RyanW - Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats. Last edited by RyanW; 02-21-2020 at 12:47 AM.

02-21-2020, 09:07 AM	#9
TGLS Join Date: Jan 2014	Re: What do the slave camps do? [Reign of Steel] The only way it makes much sense for labour camps as presented in RoS make much sense is if AUs (Autonomous Units) are really expensive to the point where it's cheaper to use humans for marginally skilled labour than building AUs or allowing NUs to make mistakes. Following on from that, it could be that they hardly make anything back from the labour camps. This would explain why the factions that do use slave labour aren't doing much better than those that use resources to directly exterminate humans. It could be that the AIs that use slave labour aren't quite as calculating as they pretend to be, and are just using a slightly more economical way to kill all the humans. After all, the work needs to be done, if it kills humans in the process, just as well.

02-21-2020, 04:45 PM	#10
LoneWolf23k Join Date: Sep 2004	Re: What do the slave camps do? [Reign of Steel] I guess the end reasoning would depend on the Zonemind doing the actual enslaving. Brisbane only values Humans as lab rats, so it makes sense to also use them as manual labor for building and maintaining the science labs. Vancouver sees Human labor as a stopgap measure until enough dumbots are manufactured to handle the labor aspect. Ultimately, however, the point of the Slave Camps is to get some use out of the Humans before they die of exhaustion or workplace injury. It's not really about labor effectiveness.