When is the Dodging action declared?

[luguvalium]

After another evening of running Melee, this situation came up: Aurelien (adjDX=16) wanted to use his bow to attack Bryant (adjDX=11). Bryant has moved less than half his MA. Actions are done in order of adjDX, so Aurelien attacks first. Bryant wants to Dodge. When does Bryant declare his Dodge action?

A) When all adjDX player actions take place? In which case a character can never dodge a shooter with a higher DX.
B) When first attacked
C) When his movement has ended but before any actions have taken place
D) Any of the above
E) None of the above, its something else

I assume the same situation comes up when Defending.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by luguvalium

After another evening of running Melee, this situation came up: Aurelien (adjDX=16) wanted to use his bow to attack Bryant (adjDX=11). Bryant has moved less than half his MA. Actions are done in order of adjDX, so Aurelien attacks first. Bryant wants to Dodge. When does Bryant declare his Dodge action?

A) When all adjDX player actions take place? In which case a character can never dodge a shooter with a higher DX.
B) When first attacked
C) When his movement has ended but before any actions have taken place
D) Any of the above
E) None of the above, its something else

I assume the same situation comes up when Defending.

A question! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9463hBWy0ig

Our best interpretation of this rule is E). Other interpretations lead to various issues or problems in the neat and tight tactical play that can be TFT.

If you play E) you won't have to worry about players who change their options over and over again to no good end but wasted time, and you'll play TFT they way we think it was intended, since the rules require you to *Choose an option* during the movement part of the turn, prior to executing according to DX. You can then change your option, within movement guidelines and current tactical proximity, when it is your turn to act according to DX.

E) is following TFT rules, being *choose an option and execute the movement portion* of the option. If another interpretation is followed, then there is no real reason to declare any option prior to DX actions.

If, however, this rule is followed through its most probable intent, if a character felt that they are too slow to effectively change their option when their DX occurs during the turn, they *need to choose their option as Defend or Dodge* during the *choose your option and execute the movement portion of that option* part of the turn.

In this way, slower players can always choose Dodge or Defend to protect themselves during the turn, but have to commit to it until their turn to act, which might even be last!

Higher DX characters can possibly afford to choose some other option, depending on how fast they feel they are in relation to the others on the field.

If no one "takes advantage" of the character's Dodge or Defend option, then of course they are free to change their option as they are allowed by their movement and current situation in the battle.

Played any other way, IMO, degrades the tactical experience and makes moot the declaration of options prior to execution as the rules state to do. It also makes tactical decisions more interesting, and rewards those with higher DX with more flexibility during the turn in relation to other characters' DX.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by luguvalium

After another evening of running Melee, this situation came up: Aurelien (adjDX=16) wanted to use his bow to attack Bryant (adjDX=11). Bryant has moved less than half his MA. Actions are done in order of adjDX, so Aurelien attacks first. Bryant wants to Dodge. When does Bryant declare his Dodge action?

A) When all adjDX player actions take place? In which case a character can never dodge a shooter with a higher DX.
B) When first attacked
C) When his movement has ended but before any actions have taken place
D) Any of the above
E) None of the above, its something else

I assume the same situation comes up when Defending.

I would say D), any of the above. See the Changing Options rules listed in Wizard and Advanced Melee (same wording in both places), which says you can change your option at any time to react to changing conditions. Also notice that in all of the examples, pretty much no one declares their option until it's time for them to do something, and there are examples of people with lower adjDX Defending against people with higher adjDX (see the combat example in Melee, for one).

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by luguvalium

After another evening of running Melee, this situation came up: Aurelien (adjDX=16) wanted to use his bow to attack Bryant (adjDX=11). Bryant has moved less than half his MA. Actions are done in order of adjDX, so Aurelien attacks first. Bryant wants to Dodge. When does Bryant declare his Dodge action? ...

I assume the same situation comes up when Defending.

Hi Luguvalium,
Steve Jackson wrote the following, which might help:

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

Dodge/defend protects regardless of DX of attacks. Is there someting that needs improving with the wording?

To cross index these threads a bit, Skarg found these threads.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...55#post2169955
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...=155534&page=4

In the campaigns based on my rules, the Dodge option could occur when Bryant moves, or he could change it to Dodge when Aurelien chooses to shoot at him.

There has been some discussion about changing the rule that you can move 1/2 your MA and defend. I hope this change does happen. If you can run forward 5 hexes and attack, it seems that you should be able to run forward 5 hexes and fight defensively.

Warm regards, Rick.

[Chris Rice]

As Rick says, Steve has made that statement in these forums and it's always the way we played it. However, the rules don't say that and need to be clarified as far as Dodge/Defend are concerned. I think I may even have asked for this clarification in a previous thread but since we haven't seen a draft of the new rules we don't know if it will happen. I hope so.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Rick_Smith

There has been some discussion about changing the rule that you can move 1/2 your MA and defend. I hope this change does happen. If you can run forward 5 hexes and attack, it seems that you should be able to run forward 5 hexes and fight defensively.

The Changing Options section clearly says that you CAN Defend if you move 1/2 your MA.

It's the weirdness of the Options list that only lists Defend under you being Engaged, that leads some people to think you can only move 1 to Defend.

(Clearly some clarification in the wording of the rules is needed.)

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by Skarg

The Changing Options section clearly says that you CAN Defend if you move 1/2 your MA. ...

Hi Skarg,
Thanks. We have played it that way for ages, but I assumed it was one of my house rules. Some things are hard to word correctly, and still be easy to understand. But with a carefully chosen example or two, this sort of thing could be made clear.

Warm regards, Rick.