Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-30-2018, 01:31 AM   #1
FeiLin
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Spear Master

I was looking through various Spear styles and options to make a Spear Master, and I was a bit intrigued by options such as Form Mastery (MA50), and using the Staff skill for +2 Parry. When it came down to points, it seemed it wasn't as effective as just ploughing down all points into the Spear skill, which felt a bit boring.

So, assume a character of DX 10, no other Advantages/Disadvantages. Spear and Staff skills are both DX/A, and mutually default at -2. Spear the weapon can be used with Staff skill at a further -2.

If I put 24 points into Spear, I'll have 16 for attacks and 11 for parry.

If I put 16 into Spear, 8 into Staff, I'll have 14 in both, so 14 for attack and still 11 in parry ((14-2)2 + 3 + 2 with the staff skill). And to be able to do so freely, I need another point in Form Mastery.

So, did I miss something or how do I make an exciting spear master whose point allocation also makes sense? I mean, I could spend the extra points for the "roleplaying value", of course, but it doesn't quite feel right.
FeiLin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2018, 01:49 AM   #2
Celjabba
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Default Re: Spear Master

iirc, the staff skill give you the option of a swing (cr) attack.
Celjabba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2018, 02:06 AM   #3
evileeyore
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: Spear Master

If you want a 'better' Parry I'd look at Weapon Fencer Perk out of Pyramid - 3-89 Alternate Dungeons II. It let's you treat a non-fencing weapon as though you can fence with it which gives the Fencing iterative Parries.
__________________
Feel free to steal, borrow, fold, spindle, mutilate any rule, advantage, etc I come up with it.

Gurps Combat Club on RPoL. Come check it out, play in a tourney or two!
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2018, 05:18 AM   #4
FeiLin
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Spear Master

Kool, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
If you want a 'better' Parry [...]
Well, I'm looking for nice options/moves that makes a Spear Master feel like a Spear Master. I don't specifically want a better Parry, but the Form Mastery seemed like an interesting twist which not every warrior out there has.

If the only difference between a Spear Master and anyone using a spear is the difference in level, then it feels a bit 'meh'. If the only difference between a Spear Master and an [any melee weapon] Master is that they have Weapon Master or Trained By A Master specialised toward different weapons, that's also a bit 'meh'. Form Mastery seemed interesting because not every weapon lends itself to being used with complementary skills, but since it costs more it sort of defeats the purpose (I wanna become as good as possible with a spear).

And I know tactics and combat choices of course have great impact as well, but apart from the fencing suggestion, are there any options to customise (in this case) a Spear Master in unusual ways?

Last edited by FeiLin; 09-30-2018 at 07:03 AM.
FeiLin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2018, 07:26 AM   #5
Maz
 
Maz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denmark
Default Re: Spear Master

Is on the phone so cant make a long response.

I would suggest you look at techniques. Stuff like swipe and trip and armed shoves/slams. Also targeted attack.

Btw. There is a perk that let you switch a weapon to another skill so you could use spear with staff skill.
Another good perk is grip mastery so you can switch to reverse grip for added dam.
Maz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2018, 10:16 AM   #6
ravenfish
 
Join Date: May 2007
Default Re: Spear Master

I had always assumed that one could use a spear as a staff with the staff skill without penalty (apart from the standard -2 default from Spear to Staff, if Spear is the source of one's skill), and that the note in the weapons table about spear use defaulting to Staff skill at -2 applied only to spear-style attacks with the tip (since those are, after all, the only attack modes listed there in the table). I admit I have no explicit justification for this, but the fact that form mastery (and the notes on switching weapon techniques) discusses using a spear as a staff without mentioning any penalties seems to strongly imply it, and the fact that a dueling polearm can, per Low-Tech, be used as a staff with no to-hit penalty (albeit without a bonus to parry, since one has to swing around a big hulking axehead or whatever when maneuvering it) seems to lend support to the idea. If I am missing some explicit statement, could you point it out to me?

If, on the other hand, my interpretation can be permitted to stand, after spending one point on Form Mastery and a single point in Staff skill to get all the benefits thereof (while using the -2 default to get one's skill level with Staff), one would get a net +1 to parry with the spear (and a cool swing/crushing attack mode at only -2 to skill- very useful in any genre where targets are at least occasionally unliving or homogeneous).
__________________
I predicted GURPS:Dungeon Fantasy several hours before it came out and all I got was this lousy sig.

Last edited by ravenfish; 09-30-2018 at 10:23 AM.
ravenfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2018, 10:27 AM   #7
Kelly Pedersen
 
Kelly Pedersen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Default Re: Spear Master

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeiLin View Post
So, assume a character of DX 10, no other Advantages/Disadvantages. Spear and Staff skills are both DX/A, and mutually default at -2. Spear the weapon can be used with Staff skill at a further -2.

If I put 24 points into Spear, I'll have 16 for attacks and 11 for parry.

If I put 16 into Spear, 8 into Staff, I'll have 14 in both, so 14 for attack and still 11 in parry ((14-2)2 + 3 + 2 with the staff skill). And to be able to do so freely, I need another point in Form Mastery.
I think your numbers are off here. The -2 to use a spear as a staff is only the default penalty - there's no extra penalty to use a spear as a staff besides that. So if you have both spear and staff skill at 14, your parry with the spear, when using it with Staff skill, is actually 12 (142+3+2). So there is a benefit to getting Staff skill as well as Spear, and you just have to pay the 1 extra point for Form Mastery to take advantage of it on a turn where you want poke with the spear.
Kelly Pedersen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2018, 08:14 PM   #8
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Spear Master

The problem the spear master runs into is that GURPS skill defaults are kind of broken. A character with Spear-16 has Staff-14. He can spend [8] to change this to Spear-16, Staff-16 (putting the points into Staff), or he can spend [8] to change this to Spear-18, Staff-16 (putting the points into Spear). It's pretty obvious the latter is the better option, to the extent that the former is a laughable idea, but then you can never (unless wanting to basically throw points away) have a character who is equally good with spears and staves.

The easiest way to handle it is to treat the penalty for defaulting as a Technique, probably Hard. Now your spear master has a choice - he can grab Form Mastery and boost his Staff up to the same level as Spear for [4] ([1] for Form Mastery, [3] to negate the -2 with a Hard Technique), or he can spend those [4] to get a +1 to Spear (with Staff along for the ride, although he can't switch freely between the skills).
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2018, 08:24 PM   #9
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Spear Master

Quote:
The easiest way to handle it is to treat the penalty for defaulting as a Technique, probably Hard. Now your spear master has a choice - he can grab Form Mastery and boost his Staff up to the same level as Spear for [4] ([1] for Form Mastery, [3] to negate the -2 with a Hard Technique), or he can spend those [4] to get a +1 to Spear (with Staff along for the ride, although he can't switch freely between the skills).
The more Ive studied various martial arts the more I tend to agree with this general concept.
__________________
Gaming Ballistic, LLC: Home of Dragon Heresy, Hall of Judgment, and hand-made viking shields.

Pre-Order on Backerkit: Four Perilous Journeys: New Adventures plus physical accessories for The Fantasy Trip. FIVE adventures for TFT, written by David Pulver and the team of Christopher R. Rice and J. Edward Tremlett.
DouglasCole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2018, 09:24 PM   #10
zoncxs
 
zoncxs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: earth....I think.
Default Re: Spear Master

The above house rule is how I actually run all my martial art style games.

If skills default to one another, you pick which is the main when first purchasing it, the rest are techniques that you buy off.

Honestly, Melee combat needs a re-work. Like how guns had in that one article that I am too sleepy to find.
zoncxs is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
defaults, form mastery, parry, spear master, staff skill

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.