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Old 05-02-2017, 10:23 AM   #11
ULFGARD
 
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Default Re: Parry or Block for someone else

Sacrificial Block is in DF 15: Henchmen, p. 21, under the listing for the Guard Template.
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Old 05-02-2017, 10:56 AM   #12
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Default Re: Parry or Block for someone else

IMO, this is something that should be allowed w/o a Perk, probably with a penalty. It doesn't seem to overly cinematic and isn't supernatural, so why "feature gate" it with a "must have trait"?

I'm not a big fan of RPG systems that don't let you even try some (non-supernatural) action unless you've unlocked it somehow. GURPS generally isn't this way, so why should this particular task be set that way?
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Old 05-02-2017, 11:18 AM   #13
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Default Re: Parry or Block for someone else

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Originally Posted by D10 View Post
You can block for anyone in your front hexes and also on the side hex of your shield, if you have the perk

You can parry any adjacent hex in which you would be able to parry (even behind you) if you could be able to parry that location, if you have the perk

Both perks exist in power ups 2
I don't really know what you're trying to say. I have PU2, that's where I found them. They specifically say, with italic emphasis, that you can parry and block for allies beside you, and doesn't mention any other directions. Reasonably, if you have 360 vision and double jointed limbs or something, you could parry behind you, and if you are enormous and got a reach of 2 you could block for allies in front, but the book says no such thing explicitly.
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Old 05-02-2017, 11:20 AM   #14
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Default Re: Parry or Block for someone else

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Originally Posted by JMason View Post
IMO, this is something that should be allowed w/o a Perk, probably with a penalty. It doesn't seem to overly cinematic and isn't supernatural, so why "feature gate" it with a "must have trait"?

(clipped)... why should this particular task be set that way?
Really good point and question. Right now I like the sacrificial dodge, and I like the idea of there just being a chance if you make it by enough of getting the shield in the way along with the sacrificial dodge, since to block you'd have to interpose yourself anyway.

As for Parry... I'm thinking it might just be part of the normal series of parries (counting for the cumulative penalty for multiple parries), with maybe an additional -2 since it's a hex away and would be harder to do than a parry to protect yourself.
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Old 05-02-2017, 11:34 AM   #15
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Really good point and question. Right now I like the sacrificial dodge, and I like the idea of there just being a chance if you make it by enough of getting the shield in the way along with the sacrificial dodge, since to block you'd have to interpose yourself anyway.

As for Parry... I'm thinking it might just be part of the normal series of parries (counting for the cumulative penalty for multiple parries), with maybe an additional -2 since it's a hex away and would be harder to do than a parry to protect yourself.
Interesting! For interposing a shield when doing a sacrificial dodge, one way might be to use random hit locations; if hitting the shield arm, the shield is in the way, and maybe if hitting the torso it strikes the shield on a 1-3 on a d6, or other numbers depending on the size of the shield. Or maybe roll a block with a penalty of -3 to -5, again depending on size..
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Old 05-02-2017, 12:16 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by DeathDaisy View Post
I don't really know what you're trying to say. I have PU2, that's where I found them. They specifically say, with italic emphasis, that you can parry and block for allies beside you, and doesn't mention any other directions. Reasonably, if you have 360 vision and double jointed limbs or something, you could parry behind you, and if you are enormous and got a reach of 2 you could block for allies in front, but the book says no such thing explicitly.
I got this after exchanging emails with kromm, and by interpreting literaly what front and side hexes mean as according to basic set.

Also, you can parry behind you in several circunstances even without the advantages you cited, you just get a -4.

Edit: I think they were PMs, not emails. Its been a while, have been using email since I realized I had to delete many of them to open space, and I made the mistake of not saving, so they might have been lost.
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Old 05-02-2017, 12:34 PM   #17
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Interesting! For interposing a shield when doing a sacrificial dodge, one way might be to use random hit locations; if hitting the shield arm, the shield is in the way, and maybe if hitting the torso it strikes the shield on a 1-3 on a d6, or other numbers depending on the size of the shield. Or maybe roll a block with a penalty of -3 to -5, again depending on size..
One of the previous posts has a pretty good idea (IMO) for how to handle the shield with a sacrificial dodge...

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Originally Posted by Expy View Post
The best that you get without diving into other rulebooks is Sacrificial Dodge, it's not written anywhere but I have ruled that succeeding by 3-DB lets the dodger interpose any shield as well.
I think I like the idea of succeeding by enough because it makes sense you'd try to move yourself in the way of the attack and keep the shield in the right spot if possible. And if you don't make it by enough for the shield, but you do make it by enough for the sacrificial dodge, you can still protect your friend, but you're taking a hit for them.
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Old 05-02-2017, 01:01 PM   #18
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One of the previous posts has a pretty good idea (IMO) for how to handle the shield with a sacrificial dodge...



I think I like the idea of succeeding by enough because it makes sense you'd try to move yourself in the way of the attack and keep the shield in the right spot if possible. And if you don't make it by enough for the shield, but you do make it by enough for the sacrificial dodge, you can still protect your friend, but you're taking a hit for them.
The rule was reverse-engineered from the Shield Damage rules in Campaigns -- there, /not/ getting your shield hit is the best-case-scenario (to avoid damage to the shield and possibly damage penetrating the shield) whereas here the best case is to interpose the shield for some extra DR, so I flipped the rule around.

You could probably do better with some more thought but my group /does/ use Martial Arts and of all the Sacrificial defenses, Dodge has come up the least. It's easy and quick, perfect for Dungeon Fantasy =)

Last edited by Expy; 05-02-2017 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 05-03-2017, 02:33 AM   #19
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What would you do if you want to create a dodge for a friend but not by tackling them to the ground in a sacrificial Dodge and drop?

Like say they are petrified with fear exposed to gunfire but the ground is full of poisonous snakes so you just want to do a controlled tackle which keeps you both upright and moving behind cover?
Presumably that would be a sacrificial dodge with a straightforward slam added?
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:28 AM   #20
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I don't want to presume, but you are aware of the difference between 'Sacrificial Dodge' and 'Sacrificial Dodge and Drop', yes?

Side note, while Sacrificial Dodge and Drop doesn't specify that each parties weight should be considered, you should probably use the 'knock over' value and compare vs the target, unless you like the idea of pixies sacrificially dodging for ogres. I do, but it's a matter of taste.

As to the rest, I wouldn't model that as a defense but rather some sort of All-out-Attack (Double) Grapple and Pin to drag the target to safety -- a bit too involved for an active defense, I think.
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