Farmland as a type of wilderness

[ericthered]

I can think of a couple of times when farmland takes on a wilderness quality:

1) You need to obtain food and shelter without being seen, either by stealing it or by finding discrete allies. This could be because you are a bandit, criminal, escaped prisoner of war, or other hunted individual. You could also be attempting to travel through a hostile countryside without being noticed at all, or be fighting a guerrilla war against an invader.

2) Food is scarce and you are trying to survive without the money to buy it. The land may be in the midst of a famine, or it could just be in the off-season: farmland's specialization in specific crops may result in less food being available during the rest of the year.

It strikes me that Bandits are traditionally associated with the wilderness, and Hobos with towns. It may actually be easier to get by in such locations.

[Kromm]

There will almost always be social – well, human – problems with taking crops uninvited. But just as Animal Handling isn't the same as Survival when you're in the wilderness and irritate bees or a stag, and just as Streetwise isn't the same as Urban Survival when you're in the city and irritate cops, crooks, or the homeless guy who has claimed that Dumpster as "his," that's a separate matter to handle with a separate skill. I'd stand by Per-based Farming as the stand-in for Survival or Urban Survival in this situation; the replacement for Animal Handling or Streetwise would probably be a social skill, though which one would depend on whether you were an invading soldier (Intimidation), polite traveler (Diplomacy), charming rover (Fast-Talk), local lord (Savoir-Faire), etc.

Of course, in all of the above situations, you can use Stealth to avoid the locals instead of making a roll to "handle" them after you tick them off. This holds equally true whether you're trying to avoid tigers, farmers, or cops . . . though cops are usually better than farmers at Observation, and tigers have a straight-up scary Per score.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by ericthered

It strikes me that Bandits are traditionally associated with the wilderness, and Hobos with towns. It may actually be easier to get by in such locations.

Well, farmers tend to be touchy about people taking their crops without paying for them, and at some times of year there aren't any edible crops anyway.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Kromm

There will almost always be social – well, human – problems with taking crops uninvited. But just as Animal Handling isn't the same as Survival when you're in the wilderness and irritate bees or a stag, and just as Streetwise isn't the same as Urban Survival when you're in the city and irritate cops, crooks, or the homeless guy who has claimed that Dumpster as "his," that's a separate matter to handle with a separate skill. I'd stand by Per-based Farming as the stand-in for Survival or Urban Survival in this situation; the replacement for Animal Handling or Streetwise would probably be a social skill, though which one would depend on whether you were an invading soldier (Intimidation), polite traveler (Diplomacy), charming rover (Fast-Talk), local lord (Savoir-Faire), etc.

Of course, in all of the above situations, you can use Stealth to avoid the locals instead of making a roll to "handle" them after you tick them off. This holds equally true whether you're trying to avoid tigers, farmers, or cops . . . though cops are usually better than farmers at Observation, and tigers have a straight-up scary Per score.

Ok, the per-based farming roll makes sense. Even during the winter, the actual farmer will know where the root cellars and other storage locations are, and the GM can apply a penalty for trying to forage at what's decidedly the wrong time of year. They'll also know what structures provide shelter and have room for people to sleep in.

My biggest objection to the above is rolling a DX-based stealth roll to avoid being seen by the farmers over long periods of time. Farmers have lower per scores than tigers or constables, but you have a lot more farmers per square mile than those two cases. I suppose a perception-based stealth roll to stay out of farmer's sight might feel better.

[Michael Thayne]

"Per-based Farming at +5" is exactly the answer I was looking for here, and I feel a little silly for being this close to running off and inventing a "Rural Survival" skill. Thanks Kromm!

[Flyndaran]

This topic makes me imagine a kind of Bunnies And Burrows adventure or other very small character based game.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

I feel like Scrounging is also something which could come into play here. If you're in an area actively being farmed and inhabited, you can grab the traditional pie cooling on the windowsill just as you would fruit off the trees in the orchard.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by ericthered

My biggest objection to the above is rolling a DX-based stealth roll to avoid being seen by the farmers over long periods of time.

That's one of those "just how GURPS works" things rather than a specific issue with this ruling. Stealth is DX-based and has no defined duration or timeframe. You can find rules supporting its use for everything from a swift backstab, through a few minutes of scouting, to avoiding bad guys during an entire day's travel. The main case pro DX is "it only takes one snapped branch or head too high above the shrubbery to get caught out, so your grace and body control are all that matters."

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

I feel like Scrounging is also something which could come into play here. If you're in an area actively being farmed and inhabited, you can grab the traditional pie cooling on the windowsill just as you would fruit off the trees in the orchard.

I think that's true when your goal is to find anything made by humans (or other sapient beings), anywhere – not specifically at a farm. I mean, it ought to be just as effective for finding stuff left sitting on a table at a McDonald's in a huge city.

But as far as food goes, I'd limit Scrounging to prepared food – neglected pies, burgers, whatever – and not permit it for finding food on the stalk, vine, or tree. The latter kind of stuff requires you to know what things are ripe, which bits are edible, and even whether you actually have the right plant. Pulling poison hemlock or fool's parsley instead of carrots is deadly, but less horribly, a lot of people aren't even clear on what part of wheat you can eat or when it's ready to eat. Someone familiar with crops (Farming) would know this stuff; someone familiar with where humans tend to leave things sitting around (Scrounging) would not.

[Black Leviathan]

Every angle I look at this the thing I keep coming back to is that this isn't a wilderness. Your character knows where food/water/shelter is, they know the most reliable trails. They know where medicines can be obtained and what animals are a threat here. Even after the end of the world if these farm fields are large enough to be a region unto themselves they're still not going to be wild. They'll still be organized and utilized. Think of it this way, would a farmer have Survival Farmland in your mind? Why would anyone else?

I think if you're foraging a farm without the help of the farmers you're in the bounds of Urban Survival, even though we don't think of that space as Urban.

I think if you're wanting to freeload off of local farmers you're making a good reaction roll and a decent carousing or merchant roll to work out a trade of a few hard hours of farm labor for a night as their guest.

[(E)]

After a bit of thinking on the subject I would be inclined (in the situations where a farm isn't a mere background feature) to use have a big seasonal shift to the rolls. Food is easy in Autumn/fall and difficult in springtime.

When it comes to what to roll there are likely a few options.
Wilderness survival for hedgerows, woodlands and waste ground. Get a "tasty" meal of fresh and slippery eels from drainage ditches or even get some game birds off fallow fields.
Scrounging would cover all the edible material that might be stored in bulk around a farm. Seconds of most produce for example or animal feed.
Thief type skills would cover raiding gardens which are most likely to have food all year round.
Social skills and trading labour for food would be most successful in harvest season when workers are in short supply and food is abundant, just don't expect variety.
Raiding crops directly has been mentioned above.