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Old 06-27-2019, 10:37 AM   #101
ak_aramis
 
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Default Re: Can In Nomine be resurrected?

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Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
Actually, you basically are saying I'm wrong. I'm not arguing about removing the 2d6 roll-under mechanic; the “swinginess” of 2d6 doesn't bother me, and I'd be OK with 2e keeping the d666 mechanic more or less unchanged (thought I wouldn't mind some of the optional rules from GMG being integrated into the core rules).

I am arguing for changes to the core rules, not an optional variant system, that would make human characters more attractive PC options than they are now.
Humans should remain unplayably weak...

Christian mythology only has one man beating angels... and he's a living saint at the time...
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:51 AM   #102
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Default Re: Can In Nomine be resurrected?

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Originally Posted by ak_aramis View Post
Humans should remain unplayably weak...

Christian mythology only has one man beating angels... and he's a living saint at the time...
That's a blatant nonsequitur. First of all, In Nomine isn't just Christian mythology; in fact, it arguably takes the stance that Christian mythology is only somewhat true.

Second, humans don't have to be unplayably weak for celestials to remain clearly more capable than them. Heck, merely granting access to supernatural abilities that mortals lack makes celestials clearly more capable than humans, at least in the areas that are most likely to feature in an adventure-heavy game. And I'm not suggesting that IN should be revised to the extent that that's the only difference.

Take the “characteristics start at 2, not 0” suggestion: with it, 9-Force Celestials still have characteristics that are 2 levels higher than 6-Force Soldiers across the board. The difference is that instead of having a target number of 4 for an Average task, which has a 5:1 failure rate, the Soldier now has an average target number of 6, which is a 6:5 failure rate. Celestials, meanwhile, go from 6 to 8, which has roughly a 2:1 success rate.

And remember that I'm comparing Celestials to Soldiers here; regular humans have average characteristics nearly a level lower than Soldiers. For them, the current rules give them roughly 10:1 odds of failure at an average task, and roughly 2:1 odds of failure at a very easy task. With a two-level bump, they're still a hair on the incompetent side, with something like 2:1 odds of failure at average tasks and roughly 3:2 odds of success at very easy tasks. But that level of incompetence is considerably easier to accept than failing more than twice as often as you succeed at something that's supposedly very easy: at least you're more likely to succeed than fail.

It's not that humans are incompetent compared to celestials in the existing rules; it's that they're objectively incompetent on their own terms, because having a characteristic of 4, let alone 3, is objectively bad, not just comparatively bad. Bumping up all characteristics by 2 puts humans at a more reasonable level of competence while still maintaining that celestials are even better.
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Old 07-08-2019, 07:11 AM   #103
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Default Re: Can In Nomine be resurrected?

I find that general uselessness of humans undermines the Celestials, simply because there is no reason to treat humans as significant. They are useless as Servants - a 3 Force Ethereal is a better Servant than a Soldier - and there is no point in building a human up nor in tearing them down, because the PCs can't get the human they are working on to a point where the human can do anything.
Given the War is supposed to be about humans, humans are a pretty shoddy treasure to be fighting over.
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