bending stereotypes

[Irish Wolf]

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

A survivalist group that, after the collapse for which they've been preparing for, try to bring back order.

Now what brand of order varies, it could be a theocracy from a pre-collapse religion, martial law, or they could even be the good guys of the settings, diverse people from before the war who just happened to have prepared and try to bring back a flawed, but functional pre-collapse form of order because they want their luxuries back, and it could only happen if civilization came back. Whatever the case may be, they're proactive in bringing back their form of order out of ideolgical motivation rather than the self-obsessed nihilists who just fortify their home base and kill everyone on sight that survivalists are often portrayed as.

Most survivalists are normal people who prepare for the worst, and like most normal people, they have ideologies that guide their actions, and it's human nature to try to push our ideologies on others, peacefully through debate or violently through threats and violence. Why would survivalists be any different?

That's actually part of the backstory for most of the games in the Fallout franchise. Sure, there are raider gangs, choosing to use the collapse of civilization to excuse their predatory desires - but more numerous, and usually more powerful, are those seeking to build a new civilization out of the remains, from the Brotherhood of Steel to the Minutemen of Boston to the traders of Megaton and Rivet City to the various past groups in Appalachia (who ultimately failed because they couldn't make themselves work together, and the Scorched, as part of a hive mind, couldn't do anything else).

Even Caesar's Legion in Fallout New Vegas have some of this going on. Sure, they're basically just a huge raider gang held together by a charismatic leader and his twisted view of the Hegelian dialectic and terrible misunderstanding of Roman history, but it is noted that in territory controlled by the Legion, the roads are perfectly safe to travel, provided you don't fall afoul of slavers.

[Black Leviathan]

An Asteroid Miner who doesn't hate the corporation or the government. Doesn't involve themselves in political agendas, because they moved millions of miles from home for a good job and a chance to provide for their family, not to jeopardize that chance. Drinks and gambles in moderation, but mostly to fit in with their coworkers.

Female soldier who is unrivaled in skill that has no interest in proving anything to anyone. She's simply naturally adept because of quick reflexes, strong musclemass and excellent body co-ordination and fighting allows her to be successful. She isn't in competition with male soldiers, they are her shield brothers. She's not offended by unsavory talk or rude advances. She's actually bashfully attracted to the men she trains with but she feels that allowing things to become romantic would be awkward or ruin what she has and takes pride in denying her desires for the betterment of her troop.

Street Kid who is seriously just a kid, not a highly trained burglar or badass knife fighter. They're good at hiding from evading people they steal from. They can intimidate people because they've lived in fear most of their life, but not strong or anyone that people would invest time in training to fight. They can filch things and have some skill at begging but they're not con men or pickpockets. They aren't chummy with underworld types and don't know much about the local gangs other than how to avoid them.

[jason taylor]

How many real "badass" knife fighters can there be anyway? Knife fights take place within a foot of measure, are to close to retreat from, have nothing to parry with, and in general very few people are going to go through enough knife fights to be a badass.

[RogerBW]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

How many real "badass" knife fighters can there be anyway? Knife fights take place within a foot of measure, are to close to retreat from, have nothing to parry with, and in general very few people are going to go through enough knife fights to be a badass.

"How do you tell the winner of a knife fight? He's the one who bleeds out in the emergency room, rather than at the scene." — old paramedics' saying

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by RogerBW

"How do you tell the winner of a knife fight? He's the one who bleeds out in the emergency room, rather than at the scene." — old paramedics' saying

The best way to win a knife fight is to be the only one aware there is about to be a knife fight.

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by RyanW

The best way to win a knife fight is to be the only one aware there is about to be a knife fight.

Or bring a gun to the knife fight.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

Or bring a gun to the knife fight.

Actually this tends to be a really bad idea - often as bad as bringing a knife to a gunfight without the option of remaining in cover.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

Or bring a gun to the knife fight.

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Actually this tends to be a really bad idea - often as bad as bringing a knife to a gunfight without the option of remaining in cover.

Eh, for any character I've played I'd take a tactical rifle at a hundred paces over any kind of knife. I'm pretty sure reality would give similar results to GURPS in that situation.

There is a world of difference between recognition of the fact that a knife remains a dangerous weapon at close quarters, even if you are armed with a gun, and an unsupported assertion that a knife is somehow better to have than a gun, if you are caught in a deadly situation.

I've never shot or stabbed someone, but from devastating targets for fun, I'm reasonably confident that I could hit the triangle formed from upper chest to the eyes 3-5 times with a pistol in the time if would take me to take a few steps and slash or stab with a knife. That's starting from cover, without the target in view, and with the gun Unready. Using a shoulder arm, it's even easier to shoot accurately at anything you can see clearly, though the relative inaccuracy of pistols is pretty irrelevant at any range at which a knife even matters.

And I imagine that three to five 9x19mm rounds, let alone rifle rounds, to that vital area would be more likely to stop someone than anything I could do with a knife. One stab or slash with a knife may cause a wound that eventually bleeds out without medical attention. From medical and forensic literature, as well as what I've seen in actual police reports for any case I have something to do with as a defence attorney, however, knife wounds are also very likely to be unnoticed in the rush of adrenaline and for the violent encounter to continue even after multiple knife wounds.

[Black Leviathan]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I'm reasonably confident that I could hit the triangle formed from upper chest to the eyes 3-5 times with a pistol in the time if would take me to take a few steps and slash or stab with a knife.

Police have something called the 15 foot rule, the idea being with your gun drawn but not aimed, a person within 15 feet can deliver a fatal wound with a knife in hand before you can stop them. You might kill them but the momentum will let them bury that blade in you before they collapse. (Again, "winning" a knife fight being a subjective concept). Mythbusters tested it and found that middle-aged men without armed response training needed closer to 30 feet to reliably shoot someone charging them with a knife.

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Eh, for any character I've played I'd take a tactical rifle at a hundred paces over any kind of knife. I'm pretty sure reality would give similar results to GURPS in that situation.

There is a world of difference between recognition of the fact that a knife remains a dangerous weapon at close quarters, even if you are armed with a gun, and an unsupported assertion that a knife is somehow better to have than a gun, if you are caught in a deadly situation.

I've never shot or stabbed someone, but from devastating targets for fun, I'm reasonably confident that I could hit the triangle formed from upper chest to the eyes 3-5 times with a pistol in the time if would take me to take a few steps and slash or stab with a knife. That's starting from cover, without the target in view, and with the gun Unready. Using a shoulder arm, it's even easier to shoot accurately at anything you can see clearly, though the relative inaccuracy of pistols is pretty irrelevant at any range at which a knife even matters.

And I imagine that three to five 9x19mm rounds, let alone rifle rounds, to that vital area would be more likely to stop someone than anything I could do with a knife. One stab or slash with a knife may cause a wound that eventually bleeds out without medical attention. From medical and forensic literature, as well as what I've seen in actual police reports for any case I have something to do with as a defence attorney, however, knife wounds are also very likely to be unnoticed in the rush of adrenaline and for the violent encounter to continue even after multiple knife wounds.

US Police data - and police are trained in close combat shooting - has more than 50% of shots missing at ranged under 5 yards. A typical police officer has under a 40% chance of hit. SWAT/CRIT/Tactical Entry Teams have pretty low hit rates, too.

Good against practice targets is not the same as good against real people with the adrenaline going.

So, with a 9 round mag, you're likely to hit once, maybe twice.

And, even if you hit, the odds are good that the weapon will not stop the guy with the knife.