09-17-2017, 10:57 AM | #11 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: What is the best Magic system to use in a DF campaign?
Standard, out-of-the-box knights can have Fearlessness, which adds to Will "whenever you make a Fright Check . . . or roll to resist supernatural fear." Fear won't win against an evil knight. Neither will the typical HT-resisted one-shot-kills, like Entombment and Flesh to Stone – not with base HT 13, +1 to +6 more to HT, and Fit or Very Fit.
Knights are mostly vulnerable to non-fear-based mind control, which is why the GM planning to use them as enemies should think about tossing a few points of advantage allocation and quirk payoff into those things – or just putting a Moly amulet around the knight's neck. If the Moly amulet works due to evil clerical magic that doesn't treat good people kindly, the PCs won't be so keen to see it as treasure . . .
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
09-17-2017, 12:36 PM | #12 |
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Poland
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Re: What is the best Magic system to use in a DF campaign?
If save or die spells in general are what you dislike (and not just cheap save or die spells), no system will really solve the problem: using Sorcery, you can build an Affliction-based save or die spell. If you aren't afraid of lots of tweaking, you might want to look into Pyramid #3/83, which has an article on applying Technical Grappling rules to possessions -- with some work, it might let you change any supernatural effect from save-or-die to a longer struggle. Be wary, though, it's just a random idea -- I haven't tried to use it that way. It might be clunky or just too much work.
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09-17-2017, 03:03 PM | #13 |
formerly known as 'Kenneth Latrans'
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wyoming, Michigan
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Re: What is the best Magic system to use in a DF campaign?
I think the standard skill-based magic is the best for wizards, but I don't like applying that system to clerics and druids. I always considered it a kludgy hack in D&D that clerics used the same basic magic system for their miracles that wizards do for their spells, so in GURPS I prefer Holy advantages like Higher Purpose, Faith Healing, True Faith, and Blessed(Heroic Feats), and the Divine Favor system.
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09-17-2017, 03:36 PM | #14 | |
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Re: What is the best Magic system to use in a DF campaign?
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Except I also don't like Spells as Skills in general. My next serious fantasy game will probably use RPM for mages, Divine Favor for 'pure' clerical magic (though Theurgists will probably also use RPM), and others using Sorcery as "Pact mages", demonically infested, etc. |
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09-17-2017, 05:35 PM | #15 | |||||||
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Re: What is the best Magic system to use in a DF campaign?
The new D&D is miles ahead of the old D&D. Reviving old school is bad. At least, as far as rules are concerned.
I think it is quite possible, but indeed very hard to do. As I said, not completely balance, but at least partially so. Quote:
In fact, I prefer spell books and lists over shaping the world at will for wizards in a fantasy game. Sure, shaping is fun for an Avatar or Full Metal Alchemist kind of world, but for classic high fantasy settings, spell lists fit way better, in my opinion. Quote:
Always? No. But it's way, way harder to design fun and thrilling adventures - especially for high fantasy - that don't have very important combats. Quote:
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This would be completely realistic in a real world setting with Magic, but in High Fantasy the average apprentice out of the academy can't insta-gib an adventurer way more experienced, unless he gets very, very lucky. Quote:
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09-17-2017, 05:43 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Re: What is the best Magic system to use in a DF campaign?
Maybe the best approach to date to the save-or-die spells is the D&D Next one: no spell lasts for such a long time, the target has a chance to recover on every turn.
Bosses have Legendary Resistance, allowing them to reroll bad saves. How would be the best way to implement this on GURPS while not severely handicapping offensive debuffer mages? Maybe lowering the costs? Also, how to require more specialization from the Wizards without badly handicapping them? I was thinking maybe Magery bonuses would only apply to a single school or two closely related schools? For example, Magery 0 is universal, then Magery 1+ would require specialization. Maybe the full bonuses would only apply to one school, but may apply at a reduced rate to the others. But then it would make it way better to simply pump IQ. So maybe Magery also limits how much IQ you can have as a base for a determined school of Magic? I don't know the system very well, so if anyone could help me develop those ideas in a way that is balanced with the rest of Dungeon Fantasy, I'd be happy. |
09-17-2017, 06:14 PM | #17 |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: What is the best Magic system to use in a DF campaign?
There are numerous ways to make Boss monsters resistant to save-or-die attacks. Kromm just went through a specific example, our hypothetical Evil Knight.
It's the same 'problem' as having a highly skill fighter using, for example, Feint / Target Eye combos, letting them reliably one-shot an opponent every second. You just make sure that some fights have Zombies or Golems or flying witches or something else that isn't vulnerable to their one-shot fight ender. |
09-17-2017, 06:25 PM | #18 | |
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Re: What is the best Magic system to use in a DF campaign?
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Also, it isn't really guaranteed to be a fight-ender, whereas the magic effects last like 1 minute, which is 60 turns. |
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09-17-2017, 09:14 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: What is the best Magic system to use in a DF campaign?
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A Magery +6 wizard out of the box has a similar skill of 19 but has the range penalty to contend with, taking the roll from 'probably succeeds, now lets check if they resist' through to 'no chance'. There are issues with Magic but save-or-die isn't a problem IMO. Last edited by mr beer; 09-17-2017 at 09:22 PM. |
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09-17-2017, 09:55 PM | #20 | |
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Re: What is the best Magic system to use in a DF campaign?
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Problem is Skill-25 opponents "dying" to a single roll because they aren't wearing special protection against that kind of attack in particular. I hate to tailor the enemies (besides Challenges) to the players. (I even try to not tailor the Challenges and create them so they make sense. You wandered into a dragon's den? Better run. He won't be injured just because you're the heroes.) The Angry GM has an excellent series on building meaningful combats, I believe I saw the example below on his guide. Why would a garrison be specifically designed to fight and barely lose to a party consisting of a wizard, a scout, a knight and a cleric? That's straight out bad GMing in my opinion. EDIT: I wanted to clarify: If you tailor the world to fit like a glove to whatever characters the players create, and whatever choice they take, those are not real choices - they become illusion of choice. Of course, who am I to say how people should play, right? I'm merely stating my opinion, but consider this: RPG is a game of choices. If the players' choices don't matter, what's the point of playing at all? Last edited by Set; 09-17-2017 at 09:59 PM. |
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