[Banestorm] Translating Yrth into German

[DrTemp]

No, not the entire book, that would be too much boring work. But the names.

The need for this may seem not too urgent at first glance, since anyone who can read GURPS Banestorm can easily translate on-the-fly. But there are two problems with that:

• Translations from one language into another are not always definite; you can translate some words, especially names, in several ways.
• Some possible translations might seem obvious at first, but then look like something entirely different.

Take, for example, the Blackwoods. Well, "Black" is "Schwarz" in German, and "Woods" is usually translated as "Wald". So the Blackwods are the Schwarzwald, right? Except there's a tourist-attraction-level forest in Germany which has that name... and that does not exactly transmit the image the Blackwoods should inspire...

So, here's an incomplete list of translations, in no particular order yet:

• Yrth ("Yrtþ"): Yrth ("Ürt").
• The Blackwoods: Finsterwald.
• The Emperor's Wall: Der Kaiserwall.
• The Emperor's Forest: Der Kaiserhain.
• The Nordlands: Die Nordlande (or "das Nordland"?)
• The Nomad Lands: Die Nomadenlande (or "das Nomadenland"?]
• Dyecastle Island: literally "Farbburginsel". Does not sound right, somehow, though.
• Keyhole Bay: "Schlüssellochbucht" is not quite appropriate, or is it? Suggestions?
• Whitehood Mountains: Schneegipfelgebirge.
• Hunt Tower: "Das kaiserliche Jagdschloss", but that's rather a description than a name...
• Castle Defiant: Burg Trutz.

Personally, I find Caithness' names the most difficult to translate, since it has so many especially English/British connotations in its names. Any suggestions for those?

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by DrTemp

• Dyecastle Island: literally "Farbburginsel". Does not sound right, somehow, though.

I'm not sure that island has any strong associations with actual dyes anywhere in the text. So you may not need to translate the name, really.

Personally, I find Caithness' names the most difficult to translate, since it has so many especially English/British connotations in its names. Any suggestions for those?

As they do have a specific, quite deliberately ethnic sort of feel (aiming for a sort of romantic Scots sub-Arthurianism, I think), it might be best to leave them untranslated. Unless you just swipe a set of names from Germanic romantic medievalism to replace them.

[Dahomi]

I think keep it like in real life not translate Eigennamen.

Exept they are difficult to pronounce in the mothertongue like Beijing aka Peking. normaly means Nothern City. No one translate it like this.

[Wicked Lurker]

You did not say why you would bother translating it.

If you want to keep all the literal meanings the names will sound awkward in some way or the other; there is not much you can do about that.

Exept they are difficult to pronounce in the mothertongue like Beijing aka Peking

I don't think its so hard to pronounce.. "Bay-jing"(eng) or "Be-i-dsching"(ger). You just have to get used to it, thats all I think.

[DrTemp]

Originally Posted by Wicked Lurker

You did not say why you would bother translating it.
[...]

Indeed, I did not. I thought it was self-explanatory, but since it obviously is not:

English is, in my country, mostly associated with being "modern" in general. It goes so far that the really super-duper-cool guys insist to use pseudo-English (German with lots of words that at least sound English, sometimes with strange transformations of the original meaning) to say relatively boring things, that is, business language is full of English loan words, sometimes without any need just because it is "in".

Now, being "modern" is, while certainly not a bad thing per se, the opposite of being medieval or classic-fantasy-like. So, when one wants to play a campaign on Yrth (which I will probably do some day, even though my present campaign in my homegrown setting works well), one will want to avoid all those English expressions.

It is a matter of the mood of the game. As a good example, take Margaret Carroux's translation of The Lord Of The Rings into German: Each and every name with a clearly identifiable etymological root has been translated in that, to the point that "Shelob" is called "Kankra" in the German version (which, by the way, was luckily also used for the movie translations) . The effect is that the story looks organic and somewhat ancient, just as it is supposed to be. I'd want to have that effect for my games, too.

[DrTemp]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

I'm not sure that island has any strong associations with actual dyes anywhere in the text. So you may not need to translate the name, really.

So "Insel Deiburg" might work. Still, I vaguely remember some part in the text claiming that the name "Dyecastle" comes from colored stones of the castle... I just can't find it currently.. On the other hand, even if that is the case, it may well be that the original inhabitants of Dyecastle spoke a dialect which used a form of "dye" in that meaning, but modern language has lost that connection...

As they do have a specific, quite deliberately ethnic sort of feel (aiming for a sort of romantic Scots sub-Arthurianism, I think), it might be best to leave them untranslated.

Hm...

Unless you just swipe a set of names from Germanic romantic medievalism to replace them.

That would be the logical alternative, but it would, in a way, mean to completely re-invent Caithness. So one probably sticks best with the "Caithness still has very English-Scottish roots" approach...

[DrTemp]

So, a few corrections and new suggestions:

• Whitehood Mountains: Weißgipfelgebirge. The earlier proposal was probabyl taking too much artistic license for a translation...
• Blueshoal River: Blauklippenfluss (not 100% accurate, but at least it sounds good...)
• Castle Defiant: Burg Trotz. (Not "Trutz". That was a typo.)
• Elves: Elben. (Nein, nicht "Elfen", bitte nicht!)
• Lizard men: Echsenmenschen.
• Orcs: Orcs. Derives from latin "orcus", obviously. Or so I claim. :-)
• Centaurs: Kentauren. ("Zentauren" would be etymologically incorrect, the original is written with a kappa, after all.)
• Gargoyles. Tricky one. While "Wasserspeier" is etymologically correct (and actually the same meaning), it does not quite capture the spirit...
• Nightstalkers: Nachtschleicher.
• Treetippers: Baumkipper.
• Reeks: Uhm, well, ah...

Feel free to add or criticise...

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by DrTemp

That would be the logical alternative, but it would, in a way, mean to completely re-invent Caithness. So one probably sticks best with the "Caithness still has very English-Scottish roots" approach...

Aren't you reinventing the entire world anyway if Anglish is more German than English?

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by DrTemp

So, a few corrections and new suggestions:

• Gargoyles. Tricky one. While "Wasserspeier" is etymologically correct (and actually the same meaning), it does not quite capture the spirit...
• Reeks: Uhm, well, ah...

Gargoyles could be "rock" + "men"? Ugly + stone?

Reeks could be "stinkies"? O:>

[chewie]

The names of things has always been an interesting subject to me. Whenever we choose a child's name today, we generally open a "Baby Names" book and read both the name and its meaning. Sometimes the sound of a name wins over its meaning, and visa versa. Names always sound more exotic if they aren't in your native tongue. For example, my son's name means Lover of Wolves. Mine appears to be "meaning unsure", though Warrior is often its associated meaning. Yet, we don't go around calling each other by these names.

Where do names come from, though? If you were exploring an uncharted area, at least un-recorded to your society, you might come upon a strangely shaped rocky bluff. Perhaps it resembled an elk. You might call it Elk Bluff, even if elk were not known to roam that area. Perhaps another explorer had visited the area and thought the valley below the bluff was more memorable, and perhaps frightening on account of the sounds the strong wind produced that day. He called it Ghost Bowl. Neither name is exactly exotic to those who speak English, but you understand the meaning of them immediately. Translate them to another language, and they may take on an entirely different feel to one who doesn't speak or understand that language.

Of course, if you're not discovering the world on your own, rather learning it from someone more familiar with it, you might adopt (and sometimes butcher) the name given to you. For example, the Mississippi River is a name butchered from "Messipi" (or Misi-ziibi in contemporary spelling), a name given by Anishinaabe (which I'm probably butchering), a people recognized by English speaking settlers as Ojibwe (also known as Chippewa, Otchipwe, etc...) A place, people, or thing having multiple names spelled multiple ways is simply the nature of languages, for good or ill.

References: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anishinaabe, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_river.