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Old 10-24-2019, 07:27 AM   #11
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
Step size 100 hexes isn't that expensive. Ignoring the boost you'd get from higher Basic Speed, Enhanced Move (Ground, Second Nature, +150%) 7 [350] + Basic Move +5 [25] gives you Move 1280 and step 128. 375 points is pretty expensive, but on a 1000 or even 500 point super, it's not that bad. ATR, that is going to add up fast.
300+ points sounds expensive, and the goal here can easily be accomplished by easier means. If all you want is the ability to quickly cross an area or dodge out of an area, Warp actually makes a much nicer choice. Just tack on a limitation that requires it to be a path the speedster could run.

ATR without limitations can be quite costly, but it's also quite powerful. I can't see calling a character a speedster without at least a couple of levels.


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If you're not worried about points, the simplest way to do it is increased Striking ST, some Extra Attacks, and the alternate rule for Move and Attack given on SU27. But it's not too efficient.
My movie Flash version used static electrical discharge as his "powerful attack" and a combination of ATR and Striking ST for dealing with lesser foes.
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Old 10-24-2019, 08:46 AM   #12
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Just tack on a limitation {to Warp} that requires it to be a path the speedster could run.
Horror p20, "Only places you could walk/climb to, given time", -20%.

(Horror wanted it for "Ghostly Movement", so it also has an "Only while unobserved" Limitation, also good for Weeping Angels or slasher antagonists. But just "Only places you could get to normally" is handy for extremely fast speedsters as well.)
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Old 10-24-2019, 10:30 AM   #13
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Horror p20, "Only places you could walk/climb to, given time", -20%.
Just for fun:

Warp (Reliable +10 +50%; Always at a -5 or -10 penalty* -5%; No Strain +25%; Only places he could run/climb to given time -20%) [150]

* Warp can be used with "no concentration" at -10 (effectively IQ with reliable) to take another action or for an emergency dodge (max 10 yards as an active defense). Warp will usually be used in place of a "Move" maneuver which requires 1 second of action at -5 (effectively IQ+5 with reliable).

Bundle this with Speed Talent 4 and ATR/2 and you have quite the speedster for 370 points. He can close 100 yards at IQ+2 as a free action, AoA with 2 punches, AoA for another 2 punches, then for his last action either take a normal attack or retreat 100 yards at IQ+7. The normal attack would allow him to blink dodge up to 10 yards at IQ+4 whereas the retreat would force him to rely on a normal active defense instead.
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Old 10-24-2019, 10:39 AM   #14
awesomenessofme1
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Just for fun:

Warp (Reliable +10 +50%; Always at a -5 or -10 penalty* -5%; No Strain +25%; Only places he could run/climb to given time -20%) [150]

* Warp can be used with "no concentration" at -10 (effectively IQ with reliable) to take another action or for an emergency dodge (max 10 yards as an active defense). Warp will usually be used in place of a "Move" maneuver which requires 1 second of action at -5 (effectively IQ+5 with reliable).

Bundle this with Speed Talent 4 and ATR/2 and you have quite the speedster for 370 points. He can close 100 yards at IQ+2 as a free action, AoA with 2 punches, AoA for another 2 punches, then for his last action either take a normal attack or retreat 100 yards at IQ+7. The normal attack would allow him to blink dodge up to 10 yards at IQ+4 whereas the retreat would force him to rely on a normal active defense instead.
This is a good build for a relatively low-level combat speedster, but it does mean they'll be relatively slow and unreliable when it comes to traveling. The Enhanced Move build I posted earlier can move at Move 1280 with no problems, whereas your build would need to roll every turn.
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:26 AM   #15
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Warp (Reliable +10 +50%; Always at a -5 or -10 penalty* -5%; No Strain +25%; Only places he could run/climb to given time -20%) [150]

* Warp can be used with "no concentration" at -10 (effectively IQ with reliable) to take another action or for an emergency dodge (max 10 yards as an active defense). Warp will usually be used in place of a "Move" maneuver which requires 1 second of action at -5 (effectively IQ+5 with reliable).
Do you remember where it talks about using a Move (at -5) maneuver instead of a Concentrate to Warp? Sounds almost like a Move and Attack at -4 is changed to a -5 for a Leap Attack...
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:31 AM   #16
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
This is a good build for a relatively low-level combat speedster, but it does mean they'll be relatively slow and unreliable when it comes to traveling. The Enhanced Move build I posted earlier can move at Move 1280 with no problems, whereas your build would need to roll every turn.
I suspect you haven't accounted for other factors. Most of those would be easily mitigated with either a perk and just investing in a few points of IQ.

First off, I'd drop a point into "no nuisance rolls" for Warp allowing him to pass any "normal" roll where the final was 17+. It's not necessary, but it takes care of a lot of unnecessary dice rolling. I would plan most of his rolls around 17 (accounting for IQ and fatigue use) so that you didn't need to make rolls for normal use. With IQ 11, he's actually faster than your runner as he can travel 500 yards per one second action at a net (IQ 11 +4 talent + 10 reliable - 5 for 1 sec - 3 for distance, net +6) at a 17+ roll. With IQ 12, he's much faster, as this goes up to 2 miles per action or about 6x1280 yds/sec. Perhaps IQ is why Thawne is faster than Barry who also tends to be faster than Wally...

Also, in any given he could travel 1,000 miles at IQ-2 and add fatigue to increase the odds of success (5 fatigue turns this into an IQ+3 roll). Since it would take over 2 hours at Move 1280, warp speedster could chill and recover the fatigue before the other speedster was halfway there.

Logistically I'd probably add "Blind +50%" to my build to cover going places based just on distance/direction but navigation would be something you'd have to deal with for either speedster.
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:37 AM   #17
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Do you remember where it talks about using a Move (at -5) maneuver instead of a Concentrate to Warp? Sounds almost like a Move and Attack at -4 is changed to a -5 for a Leap Attack...
No, I do not.

Since 3e -> 4e changed concentrate to be resolved during your turn (for the last second of concentration), I don't see really the point of switching it to another maneuver. Both happen on your turn and offer a defense. I suppose there are a few instances where you couldn't concentrate but you could move and vice versa. Offhand it sounds like a 0%? Move and attack is actually worse considering Warp allows for an "instant" use at -10 that counts as a "free" action.

Powers talks about raising the Move and Attack skill cap via Talent?

Last edited by naloth; 10-24-2019 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:50 AM   #18
awesomenessofme1
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Logistically I'd probably add "Blind +50%" to my build to cover going places based just on distance/direction but navigation would be something you'd have to deal with for either speedster.
With Second-Nature (or just Cosmic, complete maneuverability) and Enhanced Time Sense (basically a requirement for any speedster), the Enhanced Move speedster shouldn't ever have problems with navigation.
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:51 AM   #19
awesomenessofme1
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Powers talks about raising the Move and Attack skill cap via Talent?
Supers, not Powers.
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:57 AM   #20
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
I don't see really the point of switching it to another maneuver. Both happen on your turn and offer a defense. I suppose there are a few instances where you couldn't concentrate but you could move and vice versa. Offhand it sounds like a 0%?
DF11p12 (Run and Hit) allows a Move maneuver to substitute for the Ready maneuver for fulfilling "Takes Extra Time" requirements, so allowing it to substitute for a Concentrate doesn't seem too far off.

Given that this has a benefit (you get to move more than the Step either a Ready or a Concentrate allows) the drawback should probably be that you MUST move more than 1 hex.

If someone could do either (anything up to their full move, or stay in place) that'd probably be some kind of enhancement. Unless it was done like some kind of "Move and Ready" or "Move and Concentrate" where you got a penalty to your "attack" of -4 in exchange for getting added movement you can do before/after Warping that turn.
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