Keeping Opponents at Bay

[Ailluminus]

Hello, all,

Sorry if this question has an obvious answer that I missed, either in the forums or in the books themselves, but I wasn't able to find it after considerable searching. I'm a long-time fan of GURPS, but haven't been playing consistently or recently, due to lack of interest among my player group; I've recently said, "my way or the highway," and things are going just fine.

One of my players pointed out, correctly I believe, that one of the main benefits of weapons with considerable reach- such as spears, pikes and other thrusting weapons- is that they keep your opponent at bay, making it much harder for a guy with a knife to land a blow on someone with a spear. Certainly, GURPS accounts for a weapon without 'C' Reach being immobilized against someone within a few scant feet of the defender quite well, but there doesn't seem to be a corresponding limitation on a fellow with a knife ducking past that thrusting spear and getting in close.

The only rule that I find MIGHT duplicate this is taking a Wait Maneuver and attacking that fellow with the knife as he tries to close range and hoping for Knockback. It could be argued that the attackers unwillingness to take that spear blow is what actually keeps him from advancing into the defender's reach; if, in doing so, the attacker successfully Parries, Blocks or Dodges, then he can continue, but if not he effectively takes the wound and then continues to advance if Knockback isn't achieved.

Stop Thrust appears to be more about stopping a person from charging, rather than keeping them at bay with a greater ranged weapon.

In the above examples, the attacker wields a knife (Reach C), and the defender is the one with the spear (Reach 2).

Is there another Rules As Written way to keep an opponent at range with a spear weapon or similar, such as a fencing weapon at Range 1, and prevent them from closing to Range C? Is there a house rule that can accomplish this without stretching the existing rules too far.

Thanks in advance, and apologies if I've just missed the obvious rule,

Ailluminus

[hal]

By chance, do you have a copy of GURPS MARTIAL ARTS or are you just working from GURPS CAMPAIGNS rules?

[Kromm]

There's a box of options on p. 106 of GURPS Martial Arts; one of those might work. Still, be aware that merely having a long weapon doesn't magically repel enemies – holding foes at bay is a question of their willpower, not your reach advantage. Someone in sufficiently heavy armor, or with confidence in his ability to evade or ward off your attack (block, dodge, or parry), isn't going to hesitate to close with you, as he knows your weapon will probably slide off his armor or be turned wide. In a harshly realistic campaign, the GM might require those who wish to risk that to roll against Will or their best combat skill floated to Will, with failure meaning that they Do Nothing that turn.

[Ulzgoroth]

Keeping someone at bay is a matter of threatening them, not of physically blocking them.


One thing that might help is if a Retreat ended your forward movement for the turn.

If your opponent is not much weaker than you, you really want your Active Defenses to work and can't rely on them to do so without scraping up every possible bonus. You almost certainly can't rely on them after hampering them with a Move and Attack or Committed Attack.

So you're probably going to actually advance with a Move maneuver, if you're trying to get inside the reach of someone with a longer weapon (which Attack won't achieve for you). But there's nothing that I can see stopping you from moving forward, doing a Retreating active defense against the one trying to hold you at bay, and then going right back to moving forward. It only costs you one hex...unless you're significantly encumbered you'll have no problem getting well inside their reach despite doing that. If you're charging past the point it seems more fair that you should be stuck with the modifiers for a Slip rather than being able to get a Retreat.

(Someone running at you with a shield is very likely to bull through your defense successfully regardless. They have a DB, and can still defend with the shield on a Move and Attack!)

[Ailluminus]

Thanks, guys, that's amazing and exactly what I was looking for. Apparently my Search Fu is weak.

Deeply appreciate it.

[dcarson]

There is a reason that spears, pikes etc are army weapons while swords tend to be personal weapons. A spear is fairly easy to patty or block aside and then get inside of, a wall of them is harder. Spears and other such are also a lot cheaper then swords which also makes them a army weapon or personal weapon of not rich characters.

[Anthony]

Keeping opponents at bay is basically wait and intimidate, but there are some similar mechanical advantages to long weapons, as long as you have space. Let's say you have a reach 2 weapon, and you and your opponent are 3 hexes apart.

If he steps forward, you attack him and step back. Repeat ad infinitum, he'll never get an attack in.
If he all-out attacks, you attack him before he can attack you, and he gets no defense. If he survives that, he gets to attack you (at range 1). You take a retreat on defense (increasing range to 2), and on your turn probably attack him again (again, he has no defense) and step back.
If he runs up and does a wild swing, you attack him before he can attack you, take a retreat against the attack, and on your turn step back and wait.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Keeping opponents at bay is basically wait and intimidate, but there are some similar mechanical advantages to long weapons, as long as you have space. Let's say you have a reach 2 weapon, and you and your opponent are 3 hexes apart.

If he steps forward, you attack him and step back. Repeat ad infinitum, he'll never get an attack in.
If he all-out attacks, you attack him before he can attack you, and he gets no defense. If he survives that, he gets to attack you (at range 1). You take a retreat on defense (increasing range to 2), and on your turn probably attack him again (again, he has no defense) and step back.
If he runs up and does a wild swing, you attack him before he can attack you, take a retreat against the attack, and on your turn step back and wait.

Of course, he probably shouldn't do any of those things. The Move maneuver is generally the best way to rush through someone's threat zone.

[Kalzazz]

Slams are very good if your brawny because you use your entire ST as weight for purposes of splintering clean through parries

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Slams are very good if your brawny because you use your entire ST as weight for purposes of splintering clean through parries

Your entire ST may still be less than the weight of a reasonable weapon, or especially the weight of a heavy shield.

(The effective weights of unarmed attacks are way too low.)