Modified Super Heal Power

[Arz]

Hi!

I played for a long time Gurps 3e and now, after years stationary, I am going back to 4e.

I'm trying to create a power that allows me to heal wounds on a campaign Supers - 500 points. I have both basic modules and the "powers". Would like something that allow me to heal companions in hard battles (maybe 10hp per use?), using a skill check in every attempt and without the constraint -3 for each use as it has done in healing power (B59). As I did not find the enhancement “affects others” like in Super 3e, idk if this was banned in 4e.

I thought about using regeneration (extreme) with affliction, but it is too expensive.

Can you people tell me if it is possible to make in this 500 points limit and how?

Thanks a lot!

[Peter Knutsen]

One thing you can do is buy Power Talent with Limtiations "Only to offset the penalty for repeated daily heals on same target".

A Power Talent that covers a few Advantages, such as Healing and a few more, has a base cost of 5 CP/lvl, and the Limitation could easily be -40% or even -60%, depending on what your GM thinks. Do remind him that there are diminishing returns involved. The first three levels of this Limited Power Talent you take are only going to help you the 2nd+ time per day that you heal the same target. The next three levels are only going to help you the 3rd+ time per day that you heal the same target.

The ideal might be to use a small Limitation for the first stack-of-three, a slightly larger one for the next stack, and so forth, but I'm not sure it would cause harm to just use the same Limitation for it all, maybe -60% or at least -50%.

[Arz]

Hey Peter Knutsen

Thanks for answer!

I will talk with GM tomorrow and speak about your hint, but he is a little “show me in the book and it is ok”. to Use the talent for offset will need too a large amount bonus to do something like heal the same target 5 times = SuperHeal talent +12. I am breaking my head trying to do a consistent power and be like a “MMO healer” at cheap …it seems very hard to accomplish hehehe :D

[Peter Knutsen]

Another way to achieve a bit at that, although it's cheeky, is to buy the Healing Advantage multiple times. E.g. if you buy it three times, each time at full cost, then your first three daily healing attempts per target are at no penalty. Your next three healing attempts are at -3, your next three again are at -6, your next three again (10th, 11th, 12th) are at -9.

That ought to be RAW-legal.

What's more questionable is whether you can claim that the additional instances of the exact same Healing Advantage are Alternate Abilities of each other, and still get the effect outlined above.

If you can do that, then for 3 instances of Healing you'd not pay 3x30=90 CP but rather 30 + (30/5)+(30/5)=42 CP. Or 54 CP for a stack of five.

Your GM might not like that. It's not a clear-cut thing. But compare it to just buying a Healing Power Talent at 5 CP/lvl, each level giving you a +1 bonus to all uses of Healing, and then a +1 bonus to the other (few) Advantages covered by the Healing Power Talent.

Instead of paying 54 CP for a "stack of five" Healing, you pay 30 CP for Healing and 25 CP for +5 Talent, total 55 CP.

With the stack of five, your first 10 uses (per day, on the same target) are as follows:
-0
-0
-0
-0
-0
-1
-1
-1
-1
-1

With the alternative, costing about 2% more CP, your first 10 uses are as follows:
+5
+4
+3
+2
+1
+0
-1
-2
-3
-4

It's not clear to me, from that, that the "stack of five" thing, or any other sized stack, buying each additional instance of the Healing Advantage as an Alternate Ability, is abusive.

Buying a stack of 3 for 90 CP, or stack of five for 150 CP, is obviously not abusive. But I don't think it's correctly priced either, and if the GM won't accept anything else, then the way forward is via Power Talent, and if possible also the +5%/lvl Reliable Enhancement or whatever it's called, to get as high a base usage bonus as possible, to offset the cumulative penalty for repeated daily same-target heals.

[Nereidalbel]

In any case where you want to bend or break the rules, Cosmic tends to work. For this one, it's probably a +100% if you want to ignore the penalties entirely.

And if you want to go with Affliction: Regeneration (Extreme) as your heal, you can throw in Reduced Duration 1/60 to bring the price down a bit, and keep the healing down to MoS+1 seconds instead of minutes.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

In any case where you want to bend or break the rules, Cosmic tends to work. For this one, it's probably a +100% if you want to ignore the penalties entirely.

Maybe.

It's telling, though, that both Hero System and GURPS impose restrictions on repeated healings, per day per target. They do it differently, but both systems appear to be greatly concerned about it.

In my own design, I've opted to not have such a limit, based on the assumption that the campaign won't be all fighty fighty all the time. GURPS seems uneasy with making that assumption, and it'd be silly for Hero System.

Then again, compared to my suggestions, you get less bookkeeping, during play, if you just use +100% Cosmic and that's it.

The main problem is, this is Supers. Supers scale. 500 CP in the OPs campaign, not far from the MH scale of 400.

On such a generous character creation budget, if you had the choice between the use-gimped 30 CP Healing from the core book, or a Cosmic Healing for 60 CP, would you actually ever choose the cheaper version? As a player, being completely free to choose whichever one of the two you like the best?

I certainly wouldn't. Those extra 30 CP are eminently affordable on an MH or Supers character creation budget, compared to the significnat benefits both for the character (power) and for the player (not having to keep track of uses per target per day).

Perhaps +200% would be more appropriate? I can certainly see 30 CP vs 90 CP being a genuine choice, where one cannot predict with any certainty that all players will always choose the more powerful of the two options. Maybe even +150%, 30 CP vs 75 CP.

[Arz]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Another way to achieve a bit at that, although it's cheeky, is to buy the Healing Advantage multiple times. E.g. if you buy it three times, each time at full cost, then your first three daily healing attempts per target are at no penalty. Your next three healing attempts are at -3, your next three again are at -6, your next three again (10th, 11th, 12th) are at -9. ...

With the stack of five, your first 10 uses (per day, on the same target) are as follows:
-0
-0
-0
-0
-0
-1
-1
-1
-1
-1

With the alternative, costing about 2% more CP, your first 10 uses are as follows:
+5
+4
+3
+2
+1
+0
-1
-2
-3
-4 ...

Man, I think this will be the way: buy multiples time, add some of reliable and maybe a talent (or cheapest mode of talent, if GM agreed). I really like that and the “core” of idea works really great for the pack of 5, I will try some reduced fatigue coast to no need pay FP in shots until 10hp heals.

The reduced coast of alternative abilities is pretty hard to him allow (he never accepted before alternative abilities but this way of use we never talk about before, I will see).

About the progressive line samples I don’t understand coz in both you could make a jump of -1 for each “reuse” in same instance of power in first sample and another progressive -1 stack (second sample), instead of the normal -3 (english is not my main language and i can misunderstand somethings sometimes unknowingly :\) .


Ulzgoroth and Nereidalbel thanks for the answers. I was looking for the Cosmic Modifier at Powers and realised the "no die roll required +100%". Simple and straight. If he accept will be a cheap way to do, and can be easy calculated, even if he put it for +200% as Peter says.

About the Regeneration Extreme + Reduced Duration and affliction will still a large cost i think, dunno...and the GM will suspect cheating...too much hahahaha :D

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Arz

Ulzgoroth and Nereidalbel thanks for the answers. I was looking for the Cosmic Modifier at Powers and realised the "no die roll required +100%". Simple and straight. If he accept will be a cheap way to do, and can be easy calculated, even if he put it for +200% as Peter says.

Keep in mind that No Die Roll Required still needs a minimum effective skill of 3 to work!

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Arz

About the progressive line samples I don’t understand coz in both you could make a jump of -1 for each “reuse” in same instance of power in first sample and another progressive -1 stack (second sample), instead of the normal -3 (english is not my main language and i can misunderstand somethings sometimes unknowingly :\) .

You are correct, I misremembered the rule as being -1 per aditional heal per target per day, not -3.

So I think the correct values of the first version would be:
+5
+2
-1
-4
-7
-10
-13
-16
-19
-22

Whereas for the 2nd verison it would be
+0
+0
+0
+0
+0
-3
-3
-3
-3
-3

With these corrected modifiers, it's no longer particularly clear to me that the Alternate Ability stack-of-X (e.g. 5) isn't abusive.

Sorry for messing it up.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

One thing you can do is buy Power Talent with Limtiations "Only to offset the penalty for repeated daily heals on same target".

A Power Talent that covers a few Advantages, such as Healing and a few more, has a base cost of 5 CP/lvl, and the Limitation could easily be -40% or even -60%, depending on what your GM thinks. Do remind him that there are diminishing returns involved. The first three levels of this Limited Power Talent you take are only going to help you the 2nd+ time per day that you heal the same target. The next three levels are only going to help you the 3rd+ time per day that you heal the same target.

Reliable should be cheaper, until you hit the limit on that.