12-14-2005, 09:13 PM | #41 | |
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Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games
WOW..i'm surprised at the responces i've gotten to this topic..
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12-14-2005, 10:10 PM | #42 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games
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IF the new player comes into a low level game which the DM limits to basic classes, creation is fast. Otherwise it slows down a lot.
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12-14-2005, 11:39 PM | #43 | |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games
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On the other hand, how many times has the D&D publishers gone bankrupt, changed hands, etc.? Hero too, I believe, has gone through a couple of bankrupcy phases, and most other gaming companies tend to be either fleeting or suffer massive highs and lows. D20 plays much like a video game, dududu and you level up, this is fun and easy to do. GURPS plays more like a Sim Life or a Sim Story, it's not for everyone, but more fun for those who enjoy it.
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12-15-2005, 08:10 AM | #44 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Guangzhou, China
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Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games
Honestly, I think the biggest thing GURPS is lacking is a flashy setting. If there were dome dynamite IP behind it, I think it would sell a lot better. Most players don't care about game mechanics unless they're really bad. In my experience, players will say, "yeah, there are some problems with the game, but it's robust enough to do the job, so I'll just stick with it."
Games are bought for setting--cool factor if you will. If a game provides a fantastic, imaginative, and immersive concept, it will sell. GURPS books are usually toolkit oriented, and encourages the individual groups/GMs to make their own fantastic setting. This appeals to a limited demographic. If people buy an awesome setting with a house system, they would rather just play it than convert it--it's less work and less money. GURPS can do most anything, but ask yourself why most people should buy Serenity, convert it to GURPS, and then play it, when it is playable on its own. I think GURPS made great steps towards achieving this with the Transhuman Space line. In that case, there was an excellent and well supported game line where the GURPS factor was only secondary. It is generally considered one of the best Science Ficton RPGs of all time. Sadly, it does not look like that line will be continued in print format. I hope that some other equally fantastic PBG line comes up to replace it.
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12-15-2005, 09:59 AM | #45 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Denver, CO
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Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games
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I'd love to play GURPS sometime. No one seems to run it in Denver, though. I've played little mini-campaigns, but they all seem to break down and stop in ways that D&D and Call of Cthulhu don't. |
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12-15-2005, 11:42 AM | #46 | |
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Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games
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12-15-2005, 01:43 PM | #47 | |
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Location: Denver, CO
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Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games
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12-17-2005, 01:00 PM | #48 | |
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Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games
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12-17-2005, 07:23 PM | #49 |
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games
Forgive me if I'm retreading old ground; I just stumbled upon this and it's 5 pages long, but here's what I think is going on here:
1.) Name recognition. D&D is the Coca-Cola, The Wal-Mart, the Tupperware, the MCDonalds, the Kleenex of roleplaying. It was the first, and when it came out, it was the only one of its kind. It also was alone on the field for long enough that people played it or nothing at all for a while. 2.) Shallower learning curve. In d20 you wind up with a very narrow base of abilities at the start and acquire more as you go on. GURPS is just the opposite. You start knowing HOW to do just about everything you'll ever want to do, you just get BETTER at it over time. This makes it a bit more intimidating for newbies. In this way, GURPS' greatest strength is also its biggest repelling factor. There's just SO MUCH you can do with it, that it's daunting for newbies. 3.) Open gaming License. Anyone, anywhere, can make D&D compatable product. 4.) Xenophobia. There's a number of D&D gamers that will want to kill you if you suggest the existance of another RPG. (This isn't altogether unlike the founder of a roleplaying company named after a certain metallic element beginning with the 16th letter of the alphabet, but I digress) 5.) Marketing. WotC has a massive, high-powered product-promotion machine running constantly, and it aggressively licenses its products out to computer game companies. 6.) Fast-food factor. WotC churns supplements out constantly, often at a rate of 2 or even 3 a month. It's like eating not at McDonalds maybe, but possibly at someplace like Noodles & Co, Corner Bakery, or Panera. The stuff's decent quality, but it's somewhat formulaic. GURPS products, on the other hand come out much less frequently, and tend to be more like eating at a nice Italian bistro. The product has been crafted a bit more lovingly. Not as slick, maybe, but much more satisfying. GURPS books, for instance, tend to have massive bibliographies in the back as testament to the amounts of research done by the authors. 7.) Setting properties. The D&D name isn't JUST D&D itself, but also the highly-profitable Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, and Eberron settings, plus a bunch of others that still continue to sell old product on RPGNow. 8.) Fiction support. Novels don't get written about GURPS properties. (Though on a fairly regular basis the reverse has been true) 9.) Materials needed to pull off a game. If I'm going to run a d20 cyberpunk game, buy d20 Modern, d20 Future, and d20 Cyberscape. I can run my game now. If I want to do the same thing with GURPS, I'm going to buy the basic set, ultra-tech, ultra-tech 2, cyberpunk, and then possibly add cyberworld, mecha, robots, and vehicles to the mix. If I'm going to run fantasy, I pick up the SRD or buy the PHB, DMG, & MM. With GURPS, It's GURPS Basic Set, Magic, Low-Tech, Fantasy, Grimoire, Fantasy Folk... ...now don't get me wrong, I LOVE this about GURPS, and my patient acquision of a massive GURPS library over the years has virtually insured that anything I can possibly fathom can be pulled off in my games, but still, that's a lot of books. Then again, my cyberpunks will have things like Gyrocs, monochain shotshell, personal miniguns, and other nifty, incredibly cool toys that d20 doesn't simulate. 10.) Realistic vs. Cinematic. d20 is a VERY cinematic system. A level 20 human paladin can hack through an entire army of CR 1 zombies without breaking a sweat, likely killing as many of them as 8 per round with the help of the great cleave feat. PCs are hard to kill, and when they do die, they come back pretty quickly most of the time. GURPS, on the other hand is much more realistic. A 700-point black op can be killed by a 25-point NPC terrorist with a powerful sniper rifle and a good line of sight. Note that none of this has anything to do with the validity of either system's existence. Both are excellent at what they do. If I want to run fast-starting, cinematic fantasy and take on armies of undead, d20 is likely my system of choice. If I want to dig into intrigue, play around on the gritty side, blend genres together, and/or have firearms in my game, it's probably GURPS. I'm currently running a post-apocalyptic game using the d20 modern/future rules with a fair amount of third-party material tacked on, and I'm STILL frustrated with the amount of options I miss from GURPS. On the other hand, my last game, a high-powered world-spanning fantasy epic, hummed along like a sewing machine under the d20 rules. My next game WILL be GURPS, no matter what genre I use, though. I'd like to go a little grittier, and that seems to be the way to do it without making the players feel abused.
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12-17-2005, 07:57 PM | #50 | |
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Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games
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