The unofficial new units thread

[Toltrin]

I honestly believe in order to get true value from 'alternate units' you need to double all pertinent values such as attack & defense and keep range and movement the same. This will allow for more diverse and interesting units to come into play.

[Toltrin]

Originally Posted by FJCestero

Strike GEV [SGEV]

Attack : 3/1
Defense: 1
Move : 5/4
Size : 2
VP : 6 (5.43333 Henries)

--Francisco

First of all I liked reading your creative history behind the unit. Secondly if you own the "OGRE Book" you will find at the bottom of page 11, speed 4 is tops for any ground vehicle or GEV. I hate to let the wind out of your sails, nevertheless, there has to be a limit to some things. Besides your GEV would be travelling at 17 m/s (that is over 180 mph over rough ground). It would jar any jockey foolish enough to try to drive this machine!
I state now that any GEV with 0 to 2 attack cannot exceed 4/3 movement without roads (or jet assisted take-off).
For each 1 DEF, 1 ATT, or 0.5 RNG over 2, it slows the GEV down by 1 MOV (starting with MOV1 then applies to MOV2 then back again). This gives the GEV up to six points to spend among it's three traits, ATT, DEF and RNG but leaves it's MOV to 1 hex per turn if they are all spent (in my honest opinion, it's greatest strength). You would probably notice that I made range expecially expensive. This is because to give range, you have to have both electronics, barrel lengths AND heavier ordinance. The technology is just not there yet to carry vast amounts of weight in a small package and then speed at the movement suggested (see below for tech level reference). Additionally a GEV with loads of fire power and DOES move fast would most likely be a prototype and would therefore be invaluable and not expended in battle where it could be captured, studied and replicated by the enemy. A GEV/PC can barely handle fifteen 1,500 lb power armored infantry, their equipment and support (a whopping 24,000 lbs or about 12 tons of an 84 ton craft(empty)).
Now if there are vast amounts of ocean or large amounts of rivers or roads, I say go for it and beef up your GEV!
There are no benefits for removing ATT, DEF or RNG unless you strip it down to almost nothing (tactically useless), then would it then go as fast as 5/4. Who needs a racing GEV on a battlefield unless as a scout anyways?
So, A GEV as this one:
Missile GEV
ATT: 2
RNG: 4
DEF: 2
MOV: used to be 4/3, now is 3/2.
6.5 vp (I always round up on this thing, so, 7vp?)
Make it move OR shoot?
Have it lose a movement point in order to shoot? I don't know...
If you wanted to make a TANK GEV it would look something like this:
Tank GEV
ATT: 4
RNG: 2
DEF: 3
MOV: used to be 4/3, now is 2/1. (just as heavy as a heavy tank with weakness and strengths!
7 vp or just 1 armor unit. Although this better than a Heavy Tank over water and rivers, try using this GEV Tank in forest or have it survive a cruise missile blast...
I don't know, add 50% to the vp cost if it's a GEV and goes beyond 4 att, 4 rng, and 4 def and still retains it's speed?
GEVs are meant to be cheap and expendable. If they become tanks on skids, we are looking at another tech level jump into Hammer's Slammers territory here. I think Steve Jackson meant for the GEV to be a light raiding type of vehicle, not one that breaks the tactics of the game.

[Mark Hansen]

Originally Posted by Toltrin

First of all I liked reading your creative history behind the unit. Secondly if you own the "OGRE Book" you will find at the bottom of page 11, speed 4 is tops for any ground vehicle or GEV. I hate to let the wind out of your sails, nevertheless, there has to be a limit to some things. Besides your GEV would be travelling at 17 m/s (that is over 180 mph over rough ground). It would jar any jockey foolish enough to try to drive this machine!...

I've got both editions of the Ogre book and I can't find any speed limitation on page 11 for any vehicles. I think your calculations are out as the total speed for FJC's vehicle comes out (by my calculations) to ~127 mph. Here's how I worked it out:
Hex to speed conversion factor is 1.5 km x 15 (each turn 4 minutes long so 1 hour = 4 x 15) = 22.5
9 hexes x 22.5 = 202.5 kph
202.5/1.6 = 126.5625 mph
which is still very fast but not insanely so. I think FJC used the desert region as justification for a higher speed. He didn't actually need to. According to Ogre 3e GEV's were faster on desert terrain and would get something like the road or water bonus which bumps them up from a 4/3 speed to a 5/4 speed.

Sharp-eyed readers will notice that the speed doesn't match the 3e preface description. All I can say is that I used the game scales in the rules section which means that the preface must be wrong. Please write if you have a more accurate method of determining speed.

EDIT: Or perhaps the game scales (which won't affect play) are wrong. If the game time is increased from 4 minutes per turn to 5 minutes 20 seconds per turn then the speeds match closely enough (within 1 - 2 kph) the description in the preface.

So now FJC's SGEV runs at:
9 x 16.875 = 151.875 kph or 94.39 mph.

Yes, it was another boring day behind the controls.

[Toltrin]

Two new specialist cybertanks.


Designed with 1 main battery (4/3, D4) and 2 secondaries (3/2, D3) in the turret it has 2 external missiles (6/5,D4) in th back along with an OGRE howitzer (6/5,D3). In the front you see a missile tank battery (3/4). Two extended range secondaries (3/3, D3) were placed along the mid chassis region. It has 48 treads, size 7, 8 AP batteries and is worth 100 VPs. Yes, there are 6 separate tread assemblies. In order to fire the howitzer, the OGRE must top all movement that turn in order to fire it.
Russian Rebinski T-133
120 vp.
1 Main battery (4/3, D4) 0
2 Secondary batteries (3/2, D3) 00
2 Extended range secondaries (3/3, D3) 00
2 External missiles (6/5,D4) 00
1 Howitzer (6/5,D3) 0
8 AP batteries 0000 0000
1 OGRE Hitch (D5) 0
48 Tread Units
0000 0000 0000 0000 M3
0000 0000 0000 0000 M2
0000 0000 0000 0000 M1

Combine mobile laser OGRE
Built around a laser emplacement, this monstrosity was not built to assault the front line. It has a drone arm turret to help with engineering projects and the deploy the Light Artillery Drone it carries for self defense. It has four rail guns (2/7, D3) for long range defense against cruise missiles and GEVs. It has 8 AP batteries, a missile tank battery in front (3/4) and a laser battery (2/30, D5) in the main turret. It also has a hitch for towing other vehicles. It has 50 tread units, moves at about 45 kph, is size 7 and is worth 210 VPs. For engineering projects, it is worth three 1/1 squads of Engineering Infantry for building purposes. The laser OGRE must stop in order to fire it's laser. If it intercepts a cruise missile or attempts and fails, it may not fire the laser next turn (it's recharging). Otherwise, it may fire on anything in line of sight every turn at 40 hexes away due to the chassis being off the ground 24 meters.
Combine 'Lightening Rod' Mobile Laser Emplacement
120 vp.
4 Rail guns (line of sight only, 2/7, D3), 0000
1 Laser Emplacement (2/40, D5) 0
1 Reinforced Rocket Battery (3/4, D3) 0
Drone turret arm (worth three 1/1 ENG INF for building, D3) 0
1 undeployed L.A.D. on chassis (D1)
8 AP batteries 0000 0000
50 Tread Units
00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 M2
00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 M1

[jpattern]

I like your mock-ups of these new OGREs. What's the base tank?

[Toltrin]

Originally Posted by jpattern

I like your mock-ups of these new OGREs. What's the base tank?

The base tank came in a box at the dollar store for $1. So the tank I tore apart (it was made with poor quality) and added some 'components' to make myself some originals.
Thank you for your compliment. It was fun to do!
Look around for hot wheel military toys, model airplane kits that give you lots of missiles and rockets (and maybe guns) and then use the treads from original OGRE/GEV kits and the towers to make yourself some original designs. I suggest buying some OGRE repair kits and a few Mark 3s (for treads) if you decide to make yourself some 'Hobart funnies'.
They key is not game accuracy or whether or not your tank is 'canon' but that you have fun creating and let other people see your work!

[Toltrin]

A new Russian built tank seem on the wastes of Siberia...

[Apache]

Oh no!!

They dusted off a T-26!!

:)

[Toltrin]

Originally Posted by Apache

Oh no!!

They dusted off a T-26!!

:)

...um, the T-26 was a 10 ton light tank...
This monster is well over 1700 tons (or ground disturbance tests relieved from secret service scout/recon suits). It was also observed that it slowed down considerably when it utilized it's light howitzers on the rear chassis.

If you want a sheet for it here it is:

Following information is Classified by the Soviet New Consortium:
T-142x
Size 7
(128 vp)
1 Heavy Battery (6/4, D5) 0
2 Main Battery (4/3, D4) 00
1 Missile Tank Battery 3/4, D2)
2 Light Howitzer Battery (3/5, D2) (12 vp cost each) 00
16 AP Battery (1/1, D1) 0000 0000 0000 0000
60 Tread Units
00000 00000 00000 M4
00000 00000 00000 M3
00000 00000 00000 M2
00000 00000 00000 M1
This OGRE must slow to M2 in order to fire both or one of it's light howitzers. The targeting systems has trouble making accurate target fixes when the chassis moves over 45 kph. If the light howitzers fire at over M2, however, they do so at only 1 strength.

Personal note: Our gaming group all decided that if a weapon system has 160% of it's range equaling it's attack, then the vehicle must slow to 1/2 speed to fire it. This rule is optional and applied in some systems that would make the original OGRE weapon systems moot. The light howitzer battery is 3/5. Two of these would equate to a system with splittable fire of unlimited OGRE missiles likeness. Allowing the OGRE to move AND use them to full effect would eliminate the need of OGRE missiles (after the system was fired twice).
The only exception to this is a Line of Sight weapon.
I am sure we all don't want weapon systems on OGREs with 12 range and 1 attack ... then have 8 of them put on the OGRE tank. This would turn an OGRE tank into the most versatile unit in the game and would probably break many many original strategies. Plus, a 1/12 weapon would be pure cheese.

[Apache]

Er.....T-35?