11-21-2011, 08:13 AM | #1 |
Join Date: May 2009
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[MH] Archer - variant Commando or variant Warrior?
Hypothetical build question - which Champions template would be the better base for an archer character? The Commando, replacing Gunslinger with Heroic Archer and Gun! with Bow!; or the Warrior, scaling Weapon Master back to Weapon Master (Bows) and replacing Blade! with Bow!
(Ideally, an MH Champion-class archer would have Bow!, Heroic Archer, and Weapon Master (Bow), although I haven't delved into any redundancies that would result.) |
11-21-2011, 08:38 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
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Re: [MH] Archer - variant Commando or variant Warrior?
Archery requires strength, gunslinging doesn't - for that reason alone I'd suggest starting with Warrior, but consider allowing the character to swap Weapon Master (Bows) for Heroic Archer.
Impaling damage is singularly difficult to leverage against so many monster types that the Weapon Master per-die bonus is very attractive (as is the high ST on this template in general) but Weapon Master doesn't benefit the fast firing IIRC the way that Heroic Archer does, and being able to add the ACC and ignore bulk in close combat and shoot on the run means the archer isn't doomed when the zombies close to grapple, and gives him the mobility to avoid the zombies closing to grapple. Well, except fast zombies. Although that's another good reason to use the Warrior as the base and take Weapon Master, as the Warrior Moves section of DF2 is particularly attractive. You might be able to fast-talk your GM into enabling Warrior Moves for Heroic Archers as well though.
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11-21-2011, 08:42 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
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Re: [MH] Archer - variant Commando or variant Warrior?
Bow! may be a singularly bad deal, unless you're throwing in Fast-Draw Arrow AND Fast-Draw Bolt/harpoon, Crossbow, whatever skill spear-guns use, and being very generous about interpreting what you can use Bow! for just because you're doing it with a bow in your hands.
Gun! covers a swath of skills, bows only use one. That right there makes it awkward to use a ! skill for them. The Destiny point is nice, but you can buy quite a bit of Destiny if you just take Bow at 18 and put a point or two into some of those secondary helper skills, instead of using Bow! at 18. And that's a general purpose Destiny you're buying, not just a Bow! one. I think at a minimum I'd throw in the effects of the Bow Fencing perk for free...
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11-21-2011, 08:52 AM | #4 | |
Join Date: May 2009
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Re: [MH] Archer - variant Commando or variant Warrior?
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11-21-2011, 10:13 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MI
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Re: [MH] Archer - variant Commando or variant Warrior?
I would allow Archery! as a Bang! skill that covered Fast Draw, Speed Load, Bow, and Mounted Archery. It would still be less encompassing than Blade!
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11-21-2011, 10:49 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The ASS of the world, mainly Valencia, Spain (Europe)
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Re: [MH] Archer - variant Commando or variant Warrior?
I would use the Warrior, really, as you're going to need the ST. IIRC correctly, it's ST 19 for 2d-1 thrust damage, that's the 17 from the Warrior +2 from Strongbow. Less than that, and weapon master isn't looking so hot anyway.
Bow!, I really see it as no different than other wildcards. I would give it the Bowfencer powerup from DF, and the Strongbow perk, both for free, once you've spent enough points spent in Bow! (DX+2?), and allow it to replace Acrobatics/Climbing/etc while holding a bow and doing movie Legolas kind of things. Remember, all guns default to one another, usually at -2, but at worst at -4. Sure, it includes crossbows, beam weapons and what not, but Guns!, by default, is a terrible deal already, and Bow! is not much worse. |
11-21-2011, 11:41 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
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Re: [MH] Archer - variant Commando or variant Warrior?
Definitely start with the warrior; you want the ST-based build there. Here's how I'd approach it. You seem to want to focus heavily on bows and crossbows, instead of muscle-powered ranged weapons in general, so I think the solution is to invent an Archer! skill that's worth it.
NOTE: This is all very much off the top of my head, so if anything seems like an error or a balance issue, it probably is. :) Archer Lens: 1. Replace Weapon Master (All) with Weapon Master (Bow and Crossbow) [25] and Heroic Archer [20]. 2. Replace Blade! with Archer! (see below). 3. Replace the 6-point ranged-attack package with "One of Thrown Weapon (any) (E) DX+1 [2]-15; Bolas, Lasso, or Throwing, all (A) DX [2]-14; or Net (H) DX-1 [2]-13." 4. In secondary skills, change the first choice list to "Three of Axe/Mace, Staff..." (instead of two) and add bladed skills like Broadsword, Shortsword, etc., to the options. Archer! (DX) Bows and crossbows are like an extension of your body, mind, and soul. You can use this skill to fire any such weapon, replacing Bow, Crossbow, and even Artillery and Gunner skills to use ballistae, scorpions, etc. (Note that, from this point on, the term "bow" is used to refer to any handheld bow or crossbow weapon.) If you know this skill at DX+1 or better, replace your ST with your ST-based Archer! for all purposes when using a bow. You may also use IQ-based Archer! to replace Zen Marksmanship (but no other cinematic skills) if you have either Heroic Archer or a Weapon Master that includes bows. You may roll against Archer! in place of Acrobatics, Dancing, Jumping, etc., to move while using your bow, to retain your weapon when being disarmed, or to replace any general DX roll the GM calls for involving your weapon. Archer! includes ammo handling as well; you may use it to replace Fast-Draw (Arrow), any DX roll to retain or pick up an arrow/bolt, and in place of Knife to stab someone with an arrow/bolt. An IQ-based roll allows you to do things comparable to Gun! skill -- from identifying where an arrow was made based on the wood and fletching (Connoisseur) to knowing exactly where on an electrical box to shoot to knock out power to a place (Electrician). As well, you have an archer's eyes -- while shooting or aiming your bow, you may replace any Perception or Observation roll made to acquire a target, notice something wrong, hear someone sneaking up on you from behind, etc., with a Per-based Archer! roll.
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11-21-2011, 11:50 AM | #8 | |
Join Date: May 2009
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Re: [MH] Archer - variant Commando or variant Warrior?
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[For context, I'm a huge fan of the current Young Justice cartoon. Despite the setting being explicitly supers rather than monster hunting, the framework of the show bears a lot of resemblance to the latter. Some of the characters fit rather easily into the MH templates, conceptually at least; others require a bit of tweaking. Such as Red Arrow and Artemis, although they are arguably "bow/crossbow" rather than "all ranged".] |
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11-21-2011, 12:03 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
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Re: [MH] Archer - variant Commando or variant Warrior?
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You'd also need to monkey with the Weapon Master angle -- I'd probably replace it with something like, "Spend 45 points on some combination of Heroic Archer [20] and Weapon Master [Varies]; use leftover points to buy further general advantages." That gives you versatility.
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Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ) MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.
#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more! {Watch Video} - {Read Transcript} |
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11-21-2011, 12:10 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: May 2009
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Re: [MH] Archer - variant Commando or variant Warrior?
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heroic archer, monster hunters, weapon master |
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