04-30-2011, 12:18 PM | #31 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
|
Re: [MH] [RPM] Willing Sacrifice & Mind Control
Quote:
If you're drafted under threat of going to jail if you don't show up for service, that's a form of coercion. If you voluntarily join the army or the militia because barbarians are literally at the gate, it's not coercion, it's a willing choice to help defend your home from invaders that might otherwise kill you or your family. With ritual spellcasting, if somebody is threatening to do harm to you (although it would have to be severe to weigh against death from being completely drained of HP) or others that you care about unless you willingly contribute to a spell, it's definitely coercion. If you volunteer to sacrifice your life force to save a friend or loved one, there's no force or threat of force, and therefore no coercion. While RPK's ruling only applies to actual mind control rather than 'normal' coercion, I'd suggest that if somebody were abusing such tactics, it would be simple enough to say that coerced agreement stood at least a chance of not really being sincere, and therefore actually having a negative effect on the spell. Basically, it's easy enough to imagine that no matter how nasty the threat and how cowed the subjects to be drained for energy, no matter how much they care about whatever you're threatening, there's a good chance of them thinking in that split second you're going to tap the energy something like, "No, you know what, screw you!". And I think it would be more interesting if, in those cases, rather than simply not getting the energy because the subject was not willing, if this actually resulted in a good chance of a critical failure directing all the energy of the spell back on the caster. Of course, that doesn't solve the problem of the cult leader with Charisma 4, other social advantages, excellent social skills, and a fair amount of patience. |
|
04-30-2011, 12:24 PM | #32 | |
Join Date: Mar 2010
|
Re: [MH] [RPM] Willing Sacrifice & Mind Control
Quote:
|
|
04-30-2011, 12:25 PM | #33 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
|
Re: [MH] [RPM] Willing Sacrifice & Mind Control
Quote:
Additionally, while most definitions include rewards, usually positive reinforcement of that kind is considered inducement rather than coercion. Negative reinforcement, as in away good things (like salary, expected bonuses, etc.) that one has come to expect, though, would be something that could be threatened as a form of coercion. EDIT: There's also the point that if you were right, and coercion covers all human choices and actions, there's no point in having the term at all. It's only a useful term if it somehow distinguishes one type of choice from another, which it does. Look at the legal use of the term for some pretty clear examples that as used, it's not taken to be a part of every choice, since coercion can be a legal defense for many actions but everybody who even bothers to claim it certainly does not win acquittal or even a reduced sentence. Last edited by vitruvian; 04-30-2011 at 12:32 PM. |
|
04-30-2011, 12:44 PM | #34 | |||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
|
Re: [MH] [RPM] Willing Sacrifice & Mind Control
Quote:
Quote:
Mind, I do rather like the idea (as an optional rule) of having coercion automatically add a quirk to the spell. I may steal that one for my own games. :) Quote:
__________________
Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ) MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.
#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more! {Watch Video} - {Read Transcript} |
|||
04-30-2011, 12:57 PM | #35 | |
☣
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
|
Re: [MH] [RPM] Willing Sacrifice & Mind Control
Quote:
Those DEA agents may hear snippets of the teachings of that cult leader, imparted by the cultists who provided the energy in hopes that they repent before dying. Messages that the cult leader doesn't himself believe. This would be under unconscious (i.e. GM) control. No sticking secret messages in spells against the caster's will.
__________________
RyanW - Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats. |
|
04-30-2011, 05:34 PM | #36 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
|
Re: [MH] [RPM] Willing Sacrifice & Mind Control
Quote:
|
|
04-30-2011, 05:56 PM | #37 |
Computer Scientist
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
|
Re: [MH] [RPM] Willing Sacrifice & Mind Control
What about more subtle influences, like where the victim can say "no", but has to resist or win a contest of wills at the moment to do so?
|
04-30-2011, 06:10 PM | #38 |
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CA
|
Re: [MH] [RPM] Willing Sacrifice & Mind Control
|
04-30-2011, 06:17 PM | #39 | |
☣
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
|
Re: [MH] [RPM] Willing Sacrifice & Mind Control
Quote:
Self-Control rolls are a different matter. Threatening a coward or offering a greedy guy money just seems appropriate.
__________________
RyanW - Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats. |
|
04-30-2011, 06:24 PM | #40 |
Join Date: Apr 2011
|
Re: [MH] [RPM] Willing Sacrifice & Mind Control
I'd say that it's less about the physical act of saying no and more about setting your mind towards it. Mind control isn't perfect and parts of your mind will be resisting.
|
Tags |
mind control, monster hunters, ritual path magic, sacrifice |
|
|