Weapon Master Broadsword?

[rosignol]

Originally Posted by swampthing

Did Miyamoto-san use a baseball bat while I wasn't looking, or have we strayed off-topic? Nobody has yet said that a wooden sword is not a sword.

He occasionally used an oar he had chopped down to what he considered an appropriate size. Of course, he is recorded as having used a variety of weapons during his lifetime, so it would also be easy to argue that his Weapon Mastery was not limited to one weapon, or even just bladed weapons.

[swampthing]

Originally Posted by rosignol

He occasionally used an oar he had chopped down to what he considered an appropriate size.

Yes, as mentioned in the very link that I was responding to, except that there he is described as having "carved a bokken." Or are you objecting to that description? I can't tell.

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Note that 'by weapon' definitely does not mean 'by weapon table entry' in all cases.

Really? I've always been gaming one-weapon WM [20] as a mastery over one weapon as a specific entry on the Weapon Tables. In my game, WM (Katana) works only with katana and is not applicable to broadswords, estocs, or even late katana. If I'm the GM, I'd declare that Miyamoto Musashi -- as depicted as a legendary kengō by gamers -- should buy WM (All Weapons Usable with Broadsword and Two-Handed Sword) [30?] to include tachi, bokken, 5-foot two-handed bokken, and oars as improvised clubs, in addition to the regular katana.

Originally Posted by swampthing

Yes, as mentioned in the very link that I was responding to, except that there he is described as having "carved a bokken." Or are you objecting to that description? I can't tell.

"Musashi carved a bokken" is just one of the various stories about him. There are some episodes, believable or not, that say that he used a normal uncarved oar as a two-handed club in the duel with Kojirō.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Really? I've always been gaming one-weapon WM [20] as a mastery over one weapon as a specific entry on the Weapon Tables.

I think I've laid out the evidence against that interpretation sufficiently up-thread.

Until fairly recently I would have taken the same view, but I don't think the material adds up that way.

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

In my game, WM (Katana) works only with katana and is not applicable to broadswords, estocs, or even late katana.

That is of course your privilege as GM. I'm unsure as to what I think there. I'd be inclined to squeeze the late katana and nodachi both in with it...but that seems about the same as saying that WM: bastard sword covers broadswords and greatswords.

Then again, are any of those different from saying Weapon Master (Bow) covers everything from shortbow to longbow and composite bow? (And if it doesn't, what does it cover?)

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

If I'm the GM, I'd declare that Miyamoto Musashi -- as depicted as a legendary kengō by gamers -- should buy WM (All Weapons Usable with Broadsword and Two-Handed Sword) [30?] to include tachi, bokken, 5-foot two-handed bokken, and oars as improvised clubs, in addition to the regular katana.

I'd think that would be 35 points...it doesn't fully contain All Swords, but it includes some weapons that aren't swords to make up for it.

However, if he only uses 5-ish weapons, that could be 30 points.

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Then again, are any of those different from saying Weapon Master (Bow) covers everything from shortbow to longbow and composite bow? (And if it doesn't, what does it cover?)

I interpret Weapon Master (Bow) [20] as a shorthand of "Weapon Master (Choose a specific entry from the Bow section in the Weapon Tables) [20]" and make my players choose one. Fortunately, I've never run into objections from them. If one of them said that he'd like to cover all bows as opposed to one specific type of bows, I'd declare that it should be Weapon Master (Small Class: All Bows) [30].

[thulben]

Originally Posted by swampthing

Yes, as mentioned in the very link that I was responding to, except that there he is described as having "carved a bokken." Or are you objecting to that description? I can't tell.

Except that he carved it down to suburito size which is longer and heavier than a normal bokken. Moreover, my guess is that a boat oar isn't balanced for sword work, especially when hastily carved. Hence my comment.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by Jeminai

A baseball bat is weighted at the end and designed as an mace. It can be one or two handed though...It's a bastard mace?

This makes me smile.

[swampthing]

Originally Posted by thulben

Except that he carved it down to suburito size which is longer and heavier than a normal bokken.

I'm not seeing the relevance, if we're supposing that as a hypothetical GURPS character he'd have Weapon Master (swords). A suburito is also a sword, is it not?

Moreover, my guess is that a boat oar isn't balanced for sword work, especially when hastily carved. Hence my comment.

If we're supposing that he could not have carved the oar into an effective sword, why is this not instead merely proof that Miyamoto-san (the hypothetical GURPS character) must have had Weapon Master (all muscle-powered weapons)?

Are we saying that we know Miyamoto must have used something that was not a sword, but which did use Broadsword skill? Because that's the only claim that seems relevant to the topic at hand. If so, I see the argument for the former point (that carving an oar into a proper suburito is implausible), but not the latter.

As far as I can tell, it's merely that it must have used Broadsword skill, since we know that he had Weapon Master (swords), not Weapon Master (some other thing), and we know that Weapon Master (swords) applies to anything using the Broadsword skill. The former is something that we don't know at all, and the latter is merely circular logic.

So if there's an argument on the point at hand that's meant to be teased out of the Miyamoto-Sasaki duel, I'm still waiting to hear what it is.

On the other hand, if it was just meant to be a funny comment, then okay.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Then again, are any of those different from saying Weapon Master (Bow) covers everything from shortbow to longbow and composite bow? (And if it doesn't, what does it cover?)

Being a typo? Broadly it is not too relevant as few characters switch what kind of bow they use. Strictly all bows would be a small group and cost 30 points not 20.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by thulben

Except that he carved it down to suburito size which is longer and heavier than a normal bokken. Moreover, my guess is that a boat oar isn't balanced for sword work, especially when hastily carved. Hence my comment.

Hastily carved could make is say a cheaply balanced staff wielded with the twohanded sword skill.